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I once liked the EU. Well still do it because of the east to travel without borders. But it's leadership is something dangerous and may shape to some form of di

by holoduke 10mo ago

I once liked the EU. Well still do it because of the east to travel without borders. But it's leadership is something dangerous and may shape to some form of dictatorship or entity that does not serve its people. But a small minority consisting out of some large companies.

hkpack 10mo ago
I think EU will manage without you liking it. But painting its leadership as the one trying to shape dictatorship is incredible ignorant. Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. A country serving small minority of large companies is the best description of the US, not the EU.
- IlikeKitties 10mo ago
  > Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. Let's assume for a moment that would be true. And let's also ignore the lack of a nuclear weapons in most EU countries. How does breaking encryption for normal people help? Spies and Operatives will just use PGP and ignore these laws, because that's what spies do.
  - true_religion 10mo ago
    Mind you I don’t believe this, but the logic is if encryption is banned, then anyone using it will be easier to find like spies. Before online encryption, spies still used code books but having one in your house was essentially proof you were a spy.
    - hdgvhicv 10mo ago
      Didn’t spies just use common books like war and peace or the bible
- hexbin010 10mo ago
  > Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. Are you attempting to justify ChatControl with that situation? You might need to help us out with how you arrived at that exactly
- torben-friis 10mo ago
  I'm as pro european as they come, but I think the author didn't deserve a downvote. If there is a moment when the EU could not afford to take hits to their popularity, it is now. And here we are, gifting free shots to anti-EU populists.
  - amarcheschi 10mo ago
    Measures such going dark and similar ones are wholly supported - and pushed - by police forces around europe, not by politicians. I do agree that the politician should grow a spine and trust computer scientists for one, since they're the ones making laws after all
    - SiempreViernes 10mo ago
      > I do agree that the politician should grow a spine and trust computer scientists for one Trust the computer scientists on how to prevent crime? Uh, well that's certainly creative.
      - amarcheschi 10mo ago
        No, trust the computer scientists on what can easily be circumvented by criminals while still allowing third parties to scan private conversations. But I do suspect a bit that this is only an intended side effect
      - StrLght 10mo ago
        As opposed to blindly trusting the police and LEA? Yes, absolutely — I'd rather trust computer scientists.
- h4xx0r1337 10mo ago
  Wow. I cannot fathom anyone thinking this, but also I am doubtful the EU pays for propaganda on HN so it is what it is I guess. After von der Leyen's corruption and the fast pace into totalitarianism against the will of the population nonetheless. Just wow.
  - vanviegen 10mo ago
    Are you really convinced that the EU, which is not even a nation and is usually laughed away for being incapable of making any firm decision whatsoever, is on a faster track towards totalitarianism than the US has been since its last election?
    - h4xx0r1337 10mo ago
      No, and I didn't claim that - but it is sliding at a fast pace too.
lawn 10mo ago
Your description match the US as well.
hdgvhicv 10mo ago
The EU leadership is the leaders of the 27 sovereign countries Now you can argue there is a democratic deficit in those countries, sure.
- Xelbair 10mo ago
  There's democratic deficit in the whole system as this issue wasn't part of most internal election campaigns, effectively circumventing democratic process, due to lack of input from citizens themselves. EU severely lacks checks and balances if it tries to be something more than trade union.
  - vanviegen 10mo ago
    Are you suggesting the existence democracies that only ever implement policies that were a significantly theme during elections?
    - Saline9515 10mo ago
      The EC has no democratic control, their members are not elected, only the commissioners are "approved" by the european parliament. Its actions are also obfuscated and mostly non-public (as we saw in the ChatControl case, for instance), so citizens hardly even know what's happening.
      - hdgvhicv 10mo ago
        Dunno about European governemt but us secretaries of state are appointed by the head of government just like a commissioner is
        Saline9515 10mo ago
        The president is responsible for the secretaries of State actions, and more generally their respective parties. No one is responsible for the commissioners' actions, and they can't be fired. When Von der Leyen lied and refused to show her text messages where she privately negotiated Covid vaccines, nothing happened. When the EU commissioner for digital markets left and got hired by Uber right after... nothing happened, as no one was responsible. Commissioners hold the legislative power, as they choose which laws to introduce and hold the pen during negociations. It's pure, unchecked bureaucratic power that ends up with a never ending flow of stupid regulations that weaken Europe slowly.
izacus 10mo ago
This is a proposal from one wing of polititians that still hasn't even passed a basic voting process in EU parliament. So what exactly are you screeching about? Which nation on this world has leadership that never proposes anything like this? Which one is 100% pure and noone even thinks about bad things to bring up to a vote?
- hellofriend_ 10mo ago
  We should absolutely be “screeching” about any attempt to push or rebrand chat control. You’re framing it as some sort of business as usual type situation where a dumbass politician does a thing. Absolutely not the case and you’re either uninformed or a bad actor. There’s layers of lobbying, corruption and ideology to unpack here https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-vpn-present-and-then https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-vpn-present-and-then

hkpack 10mo ago

I think EU will manage without you liking it. But painting its leadership as the one trying to shape dictatorship is incredible ignorant. Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. A country serving small minority of large companies is the best description of the US, not the EU.

IlikeKitties 10mo ago
> Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. Let's assume for a moment that would be true. And let's also ignore the lack of a nuclear weapons in most EU countries. How does breaking encryption for normal people help? Spies and Operatives will just use PGP and ignore these laws, because that's what spies do.
- true_religion 10mo ago
  Mind you I don’t believe this, but the logic is if encryption is banned, then anyone using it will be easier to find like spies. Before online encryption, spies still used code books but having one in your house was essentially proof you were a spy.
  - hdgvhicv 10mo ago
    Didn’t spies just use common books like war and peace or the bible
hexbin010 10mo ago
> Europe is preparing for the Russia invasion from one side, and betrayal by the US from the other. Are you attempting to justify ChatControl with that situation? You might need to help us out with how you arrived at that exactly
torben-friis 10mo ago
I'm as pro european as they come, but I think the author didn't deserve a downvote. If there is a moment when the EU could not afford to take hits to their popularity, it is now. And here we are, gifting free shots to anti-EU populists.
- amarcheschi 10mo ago
  Measures such going dark and similar ones are wholly supported - and pushed - by police forces around europe, not by politicians. I do agree that the politician should grow a spine and trust computer scientists for one, since they're the ones making laws after all
  - SiempreViernes 10mo ago
    > I do agree that the politician should grow a spine and trust computer scientists for one Trust the computer scientists on how to prevent crime? Uh, well that's certainly creative.
    - amarcheschi 10mo ago
      No, trust the computer scientists on what can easily be circumvented by criminals while still allowing third parties to scan private conversations. But I do suspect a bit that this is only an intended side effect
    - StrLght 10mo ago
      As opposed to blindly trusting the police and LEA? Yes, absolutely — I'd rather trust computer scientists.
h4xx0r1337 10mo ago
Wow. I cannot fathom anyone thinking this, but also I am doubtful the EU pays for propaganda on HN so it is what it is I guess. After von der Leyen's corruption and the fast pace into totalitarianism against the will of the population nonetheless. Just wow.
- vanviegen 10mo ago
  Are you really convinced that the EU, which is not even a nation and is usually laughed away for being incapable of making any firm decision whatsoever, is on a faster track towards totalitarianism than the US has been since its last election?
  - h4xx0r1337 10mo ago
    No, and I didn't claim that - but it is sliding at a fast pace too.

lawn 10mo ago

Your description match the US as well.

hdgvhicv 10mo ago

The EU leadership is the leaders of the 27 sovereign countries Now you can argue there is a democratic deficit in those countries, sure.

Xelbair 10mo ago
There's democratic deficit in the whole system as this issue wasn't part of most internal election campaigns, effectively circumventing democratic process, due to lack of input from citizens themselves. EU severely lacks checks and balances if it tries to be something more than trade union.
- vanviegen 10mo ago
  Are you suggesting the existence democracies that only ever implement policies that were a significantly theme during elections?
  - Saline9515 10mo ago
    The EC has no democratic control, their members are not elected, only the commissioners are "approved" by the european parliament. Its actions are also obfuscated and mostly non-public (as we saw in the ChatControl case, for instance), so citizens hardly even know what's happening.
    - hdgvhicv 10mo ago
      Dunno about European governemt but us secretaries of state are appointed by the head of government just like a commissioner is
      - Saline9515 10mo ago
        The president is responsible for the secretaries of State actions, and more generally their respective parties. No one is responsible for the commissioners' actions, and they can't be fired. When Von der Leyen lied and refused to show her text messages where she privately negotiated Covid vaccines, nothing happened. When the EU commissioner for digital markets left and got hired by Uber right after... nothing happened, as no one was responsible. Commissioners hold the legislative power, as they choose which laws to introduce and hold the pen during negociations. It's pure, unchecked bureaucratic power that ends up with a never ending flow of stupid regulations that weaken Europe slowly.

izacus 10mo ago

This is a proposal from one wing of polititians that still hasn't even passed a basic voting process in EU parliament. So what exactly are you screeching about? Which nation on this world has leadership that never proposes anything like this? Which one is 100% pure and noone even thinks about bad things to bring up to a vote?

hellofriend_ 10mo ago
We should absolutely be “screeching” about any attempt to push or rebrand chat control. You’re framing it as some sort of business as usual type situation where a dumbass politician does a thing. Absolutely not the case and you’re either uninformed or a bad actor. There’s layers of lobbying, corruption and ideology to unpack here https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-vpn-present-and-then https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-vpn-present-and-then