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If you’re not familiar with Tim Ferriss, you should know that there is always more to the story than the narrative he shares. He’s one of the most charismatic a

• vasco 11mo ago
  Wasn't he also encouraging people to do medical tests on themselves and take acid to work / regular life for a while?
  • Aurornis 11mo ago
    I haven’t followed everything he has produced, but he has a history of identifying rising topics and riding their popularity. He leaned into the psychedelic self-help movement heavily when it was first becoming popular. The last time he popped up on one of my feeds he was talking to someone about the benefits of sobriety and moderating alcohol consumption, so he might be pivoting toward the next wave of reducing drug and alcohol use, though I don’t know.
    • calmbonsai 11mo ago
      Mr. Ferris is akin to Gary Vaynerchuk in that they're just trend-riders.
  • luxuryballs 11mo ago
    sounds like micro-dosing, now I’m caught flat footed in this thread wondering if I should have a negative view of it, in my mind responsible performance enhancement is not the same as dangerous or irresponsible drug abuse and addiction, but if I’m wrong I would like to figure it out sooner rather than later
    • vasco 11mo ago
      What I'll say is that all these performance enhancement bros should take less drugs and focus more on a good night of sleep.
• newppc 11mo ago
  This is spot on. I was an impressionable young male that loved that book and took to heart the ideas. Looking back it’s a mixed bag - the ideas teach you about delegation and thinking like an owner, but the bigger message that work sucks and you should figure out how to avoid it kinda hurts people who would be more ambitious. An OG “digital nomad blogger bro” that took it all the way to the top! At the end of the day his voice is a refreshing twist and a net positive but with a ton of caveats.
  • calmbonsai 11mo ago
    As was pointed out earlier, Ferris was a trust-fund kid and never needed to earn a living.
    • newppc 11mo ago
      No way? Ok that changes a lot.
• Nextgrid 11mo ago
  > outsource their work to low paid overseas assistants Literally every business is based on the idea of tacking on a margin onto someone else's work and profiting from it. Markets are based on imperfect information distribution at the end of the day. It's likely the very company he'd be doing that too is already doing the exact same thing with their customer support (or "success" as they call it now), and their subcontractors themselves outsource various jobs. But I guess we've been conditioned to accept that as good because the boss is pocketing the difference, vs the lowly employee. > only responding to your coworkers once a week I struggle to think there is a company in the world where this kind of behavior would fly, but if there is then they must be satisfied with the work (or lack thereof I guess) and so in that case is it any worse than just slacking off at work and browsing HN for that matter? --- Now should you do this? No, but not because you should feel bad for anyone. You should not do it because it's really hard to find someone good enough (and cheap enough) to deliver the same kind of quality you do and worthy of trusting them with your reputation. But if you know a magical place where to find such unicorns, go right ahead!
  • Aurornis 11mo ago
    > Literally every business is based on the idea of tacking on a margin onto someone else's work and profiting from it. Which is fine if everyone knows what’s happening. Nobody assumes that their grocery stores or Best Buy are operating as charities that take 0% margin. What’s not okay is signing up to a company as an employee, being given access to their Slack and Git, and then handing those credentials and source code over to someone you hired on Fiverr so you can go vacation more. The numerous problems with this should be obvious. > I struggle to think there is a company in the world where this kind of behavior would fly, but if there is then they must be satisfied with the work (or lack thereof I guess) That’s the thing about most Tim Ferriss advice: Much of it is fanciful and unrealistic. The takeaway isn’t literally that you should be responding to email once a week, it’s that you need to be pushing the limits of how much you can get away with not responding to things and ignoring conversations with your coworkers. The email autoresponder is held up as a North Star ideal of what you’re trying to do: Hide from work and avoid contributing to the team you’re on. As for companies being happy with it: They’re generally not! The story in the book is to gradually push the limits of what you can get away with. It suggests working extra hard when you know your boss is watching and doing things like sandbagging your productivity before you go remote. The book has this whole idea that your job is only temporary anyway until your side hustle takes over and replaces your income (dropshipping T-shirts is the example used in the book) so being a productive employee isn’t a priority.
• piker 11mo ago
  Is that right? I had no idea this was the core thesis of that guy’s book! I just assumed it was an “automate the boring stuff, get organized and delegate” kind of platitudes. If he’s part of the movement that has people ripping off employers and their co-workers like that then, frankly, screw him.
  • Aurornis 11mo ago
    He’s great at double-speak. The book is generally about automating things, eliminating unnecessary things from your life, delegating to assistants and so on. But then the examples he gives about going remote, manipulating your boss, outsourcing your work to assistants, and setting up a T-shirt drop shipping company to replace your income reveal the reality of his advice. Just imagine having one of those people as your team member and you realize how much it becomes about offloading work to the team and performing poorly, even though the headlines are feel-good advice about simplifying your life. Even the title becomes part of the double-speak. He writes about how it's not meant to be taken literally because building your lifestyle requires hard work, but then he'll share anecdotes and stories from "readers" who are living their dream lifestyle while only spending a couple hours per week responding to e-mail. EDIT to add: He wrote another book about fitness that does the same thing. It has basics about eating healthy and exercising that make a lot of sense, but then it also includes completely unrealistic scenarios about putting on impossible amounts of muscle in short periods of time using his techniques. It’s the kind of content that sounds like you’ve been given the secrets to beating the system by a guru who learned it all if you’re unfamiliar with the topic, but leaves anyone educated in the subject rolling their eyes at the impossible results being promised.
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• codegeek 11mo ago
  I personally have a hard time taking anyone seriously who claim things like "4 hour work week". It is a mockery of every real successful person who has worked extremely hard especially early on and it sets a dangerous expectations/entitlement among young people. Unless you are a trust fund baby, you are not going to live a good life by working 4 hour work weeks especially in your younger years. You just won't. The fact is that if you want to live a good life, you have to grind it out in your early years. Not saying everyone has to grind the startup culture or 80 hour week but thinking that you can swing a 4 hour workweek at 25 is just idiotic and not realistic.
  • sallveburrpi 11mo ago
    I get what you want to say but on the other hand the 40 hour week - which is kind of the standard in modern capitalism - also ain’t it. Especially if you work in a toxic job you hate just for the money. > that if you want to live a good life, you have to grind it out in your early years I think if you have to “grind it out” you should probably look for something else. Meaning if your job feels like a grind don’t waste your life on it. Having money is good but it’s not the most important ingredient to a good life
    • SoftTalker 11mo ago
      A 40 hour work week is not even half your waking hours. That would be seen a a luxurious life for most of human history, where you basically had to work dawn to dusk just to survive.
      • prmoustache 11mo ago
        That doesn't mean it is optimal. I know that when I was working at 80% I was as productive as at 100%. I eventually gave up when I realize that my colleagues were paid 20% more only to procrastinate that additional time at the workplace.
      • austhrow743 11mo ago
        Source? Afaik we didn't even have what could be considered work until agriculture.
• nostrademons 11mo ago
  I remember reading his books and thinking "This guy seems really insecure". The quote he opens the article does not surprise me at all - his books come across as if he really wants fame and is speaking to an audience who similarly needs to be smarter, more clever, richer, more loved. However, I don't think this is unique to Tim Ferriss. I think this is the dynamic behind fame itself. People who are really secure in their worth don't spend their time looking for casual external validation from strangers, and they also don't spend their emotional energy idolizing strangers and distant figures. They spend it on their family and close friends, and seek it in return from those same people. It's been interesting watching myself drop out of the popular discourse as I got more secure in myself and more inclined to spend time, money, and energy close to home. Pop culture isn't made for us, because who got time for that shit? Crass consumerism isn't made for us, because we don't spend money on things we don't need in an effort to feel better about ourselves. Most of the transactions that make modern America go don't make us go, because, well, if you're happy with yourself then why do you need them? But I'm glad I realized that before getting famous. Because there was a time, in my teens and twenties, when I wanted nothing more than to be adored by the masses. And like Tim Ferriss says, there isn't always a reset button where you can suddenly become un-famous if it becomes too much of a drag.
  • SecondHandTofu 11mo ago
    People who write books are disproportionately going to be a bit narcissistic too. https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/you-dont-hate-polyamory-you-hate https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/you-dont-hate-polyamory-you...
• tayo42 11mo ago
  I wish I was brave enough to try to get away with soemthing like that though.
• hn_throwaway_99 11mo ago
  Wow, I feel uneasy about your comment and then the host of comments piling on that are basically "Yeah, Tim Ferris is actually a shitty guy!!" Mainly, I can accept literally everything you say is true (and to be clear I don't know, but they all seem quite to be reasonable assertions), but more importantly, I think they're pretty irrelevant to the point of this blog post. Yes, Tim Ferris craved fame (he literally says that in his post), and I'm sure he tried to "hack" his way get it, but I still think his experiences and lessons about the pitfalls of fame are informative and interesting. I also don't agree with your statement "His experience with uncomfortable fan obsessions is therefore probably on the next level, but not exactly typical fame." His post goes in detail about a number of colleagues, especially women, who were stalked, one of whom had her house broken into by an intruder who tried to murder her husband before he was killed in a shootout with police. So yeah, I think his warnings about fame can apply to a broad swath of people who aren't self-help gurus. If your comment was in response to a "4-hour work week"-y type post, and you just wanted to point out it was BS by highlighting specific problems with its advice, I'd agree. In response to this post, though, it just feels unnecessarily and deliberately schadenfreude-y.
  • Aurornis 11mo ago
    Sorry, that wasn’t my intent. I was trying to add context to explain that this piece is from the perspective of someone who built a career upon being a guru and influencer, not run of the mill fame. That doesn’t mean all of the advice in the post doesn’t apply to other forms of fame, but I do think it’s helpful context for the writing. I also think it’s helpful to attach context to certain authors who functions as gurus/influencers because their writings like this aren’t entirely selfless acts of standalone advice. Every piece of writing is meant as a hook to potentially get readers to also subscribe to their podcasts, their e-mail list, or buy their books. Delivering the big picture in parallel with the hook can help people make better informed decisions.
    • sallveburrpi 11mo ago
      Like I recently read on HN: “everything written online is an advertisement - everything” It’s pretty cynical but there is a strange truth to it, even this comment is an ad in a way.
• tolerance 11mo ago
  > So his relationship with his fans isn’t typical fame in the style of a celebrity or actor. He’s more of an early self-help guru who embraced social media and blogging early on. His experience with uncomfortable fan obsessions is therefore probably on the next level, but not exactly typical fame. I think your framing is outdated. It sounds more like his relationship with his fans anticipated how “fame” is typically thought of today. Remix this entire comment with Mr. Beast as the subject and see if that helps my point. Edit: He even says himself: > [...] I’m not really famous. Beyoncé and Brad Pitt are truly famous. They cannot walk around in public anywhere in the world. I am a micro public figure with a monthly audience in the millions or tens of millions. There are legions of people on Instagram alone with audiences of this size. New platforms offer new speed. Some previous unknowns on TikTok, for example, have attracted millions of followers in a matter of weeks. So maybe not quite Mr. Beast level even...but certainly in that vein albeit a few degrees below.
• Animats 11mo ago
  Oh. That kind of "famous".
• gsky 11mo ago
  4 hour work week, rich dad poor dad, get rich quick books are nothing but trash but somehow they became best sellers.
  • khazhoux 11mo ago
    The “somehow” is obvious, innit?