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Shouldn't you have spent some time to think through basic things like this before trying to write an opinion piece on anonymity? Certainly it shows a lack of de

Shouldn't you have spent some time to think through basic things like this before trying to write an opinion piece on anonymity? Certainly it shows a lack of depth of understanding.

ybceo 10mo ago
I disagree. Like I said earlier : Web server logs were not tied to user credentials in any way, they were used for debugging purposes and could not have been used to identify users.
- drink_machine 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - ybceo 10mo ago
    I went ahead and took action on the criticism as soon as I saw the parent comment. All apache access logs are piped to /dev/null now. I'm not here to debate, the reason I posted here is to hear what people thought and see how I could improve my platform based on the criticism.
    - navigate8310 10mo ago
      I appreciate your opinion on anonymity, but, it's nothing more than, "trust me bro". And being a US company that further tingles the spidy sense.
      - joemazerino 10mo ago
        The US isn't the sole transgressor against privacy. EU has made that pretty clear in the last month.
        sallveburrpi 10mo ago
        What happened in the last month? Genuine question
        joemazerino 10mo ago
        Look up Chat Control.
        sallveburrpi 10mo ago
        Chat Control was first proposed in 2022 and is still in parliament. Some try to push it through again and again but it gets blocked. I don’t see why it should be different this time and so far nothing has actually changed for EU citizens.
    - basedrum 10mo ago
      Look into the Apache module called mod-remove-IP, it's old and hasn't had any changes for years, but it works much better than just disabling in the logs because it will also persist those removals throughout any frameworks. Also with Apache you cannot as easily destroy your error logs which sometimes have IPS in them. Consider nginx as an alternative
      - reactordev 10mo ago
        Consider Caddy as an alternative. Nginx is no better. Both Apache httpd and nginx are old and don’t support newer protocols like HTTP/3. Maybe I’m wrong. Another issue is with Apache httpd’s routing. Removing the IP messes up routing sometimes when using mod_rewrite.
        yareally 10mo ago
        Sure they do: https://nginx.org/en/docs/quic.html https://nginx.org/en/docs/quic.html https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/http3/ https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/http3/
        reactordev 10mo ago
        well damn... old dog new tricks. Maybe it's my distro that's old.
- procaryote 10mo ago
  From your faq: "We maintain zero logs of your activities. We don't track IP addresses, …" Front page says "zero logs" Some logs, including specifically datapoints you have promised not to log, but you mean well (?) is pretty different from zero logs
  - ffsm8 10mo ago
    Fwiw, zero logs in that context is usually in the relation to requests through the VPN, whereas this discussion is about requests on their homepage? Or did I misunderstand something here?
- pear01 10mo ago
  You disagree and yet you agreed 100% and made the change. I thought the point the preceding parent comment is making is that you should have thought of that beforehand. Yet you seemed to already come to a judgement about it yet then quickly agreed to reverse yourself. Sounds like a clear "lack of a depth of understanding" to me.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- organsnyder 10mo ago
  I have a static IP address; and most connections tend to have long-lived leases anyways. It can easily be used to identify me, even if you don't explicitly tie it to my account.
everdrive 10mo ago
The privacy crowd seems to be incapable of grey areas. Are all these the same thing? Are they all the same severity of problem? - A web site logs traffic in a sort of defacto way, but no one actually reviews the traffic, and it's not sent to 3rd parties. - A government website uses a standard framework and that framework loads a google subdomain. In principle, Google could use this to track you but there's no evidence that this actually happens. - A website tracks user sessions so they can improve UI but don't sell that data to 3rd parties. - A website has many 3rd party domains, many of which are tracking domains. - Facebook knows exactly who you are and sells your information to real-time-bidding ad services. - Your cell phone's 3G connection must in principle triangulate you for the cell phone to function, but the resolution here is fuzzy. - You use Android and even when your GPS is turned "off" Google is still getting extremely high resolution of your location at all times and absolutely using that information to target you. A LOT of the privacy folks would put all those examples in the same category, and it absolutely drives me up a wall. It's purity-seeking at the expense of any meaningful distinction, or any meaningful investigation that actually allows uses to make informed decisions about their privacy.
- Rygian 10mo ago
  They belong in the same category: the end user has zero agency over how their privacy is impacted, and is at the whim of the wishes/agency of whoever is serving content to them. Whether the one serving the content is exploiting data at the present moment has very little relevance. Because the end user has no means to assert whether it is happening or not.
- dylan604 10mo ago
  > - A web site logs traffic in a sort of defacto way, but no one actually reviews the traffic, and it's not sent to 3rd parties. Even if this sounds innocent, these must be turned over if you are provided a warrant or subpoena (which ever would be appropriate, IANAL).
  - Brian_K_White 10mo ago
    But it's not malicious. It's not ideal, and it should be addressed, but it's not bad faith or intentional spying or even gross negligence or incompetence.
amarant 10mo ago
We all mess up and miss things, op has shown maturity enough to admit to their mistakes and improve from them. My takeaway from this thread is an increased amount of trust in OP. Not because they made a mistake, but because of how they handled it. Well done OP!
lisbbb 10mo ago
Privacy was a joke--every time I gave someone my data that data got breached, including the US government.

Shouldn't you have spent some time to think through basic things like this before trying to write an opinion piece on anonymity? Certainly it shows a lack of depth of understanding.

ybceo 10mo ago

I disagree. Like I said earlier : Web server logs were not tied to user credentials in any way, they were used for debugging purposes and could not have been used to identify users.

drink_machine 10mo ago
[flagged]
- ybceo 10mo ago
  I went ahead and took action on the criticism as soon as I saw the parent comment. All apache access logs are piped to /dev/null now. I'm not here to debate, the reason I posted here is to hear what people thought and see how I could improve my platform based on the criticism.
  - navigate8310 10mo ago
    I appreciate your opinion on anonymity, but, it's nothing more than, "trust me bro". And being a US company that further tingles the spidy sense.
    - joemazerino 10mo ago
      The US isn't the sole transgressor against privacy. EU has made that pretty clear in the last month.
      - sallveburrpi 10mo ago
        What happened in the last month? Genuine question
        joemazerino 10mo ago
        Look up Chat Control.
        sallveburrpi 10mo ago
        Chat Control was first proposed in 2022 and is still in parliament. Some try to push it through again and again but it gets blocked. I don’t see why it should be different this time and so far nothing has actually changed for EU citizens.
  - basedrum 10mo ago
    Look into the Apache module called mod-remove-IP, it's old and hasn't had any changes for years, but it works much better than just disabling in the logs because it will also persist those removals throughout any frameworks. Also with Apache you cannot as easily destroy your error logs which sometimes have IPS in them. Consider nginx as an alternative
    - reactordev 10mo ago
      Consider Caddy as an alternative. Nginx is no better. Both Apache httpd and nginx are old and don’t support newer protocols like HTTP/3. Maybe I’m wrong. Another issue is with Apache httpd’s routing. Removing the IP messes up routing sometimes when using mod_rewrite.
      - yareally 10mo ago
        Sure they do: https://nginx.org/en/docs/quic.html https://nginx.org/en/docs/quic.html https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/http3/ https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/http3/
        reactordev 10mo ago
        well damn... old dog new tricks. Maybe it's my distro that's old.
procaryote 10mo ago
From your faq: "We maintain zero logs of your activities. We don't track IP addresses, …" Front page says "zero logs" Some logs, including specifically datapoints you have promised not to log, but you mean well (?) is pretty different from zero logs
- ffsm8 10mo ago
  Fwiw, zero logs in that context is usually in the relation to requests through the VPN, whereas this discussion is about requests on their homepage? Or did I misunderstand something here?
pear01 10mo ago
You disagree and yet you agreed 100% and made the change. I thought the point the preceding parent comment is making is that you should have thought of that beforehand. Yet you seemed to already come to a judgement about it yet then quickly agreed to reverse yourself. Sounds like a clear "lack of a depth of understanding" to me.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
organsnyder 10mo ago
I have a static IP address; and most connections tend to have long-lived leases anyways. It can easily be used to identify me, even if you don't explicitly tie it to my account.

everdrive 10mo ago

The privacy crowd seems to be incapable of grey areas. Are all these the same thing? Are they all the same severity of problem? - A web site logs traffic in a sort of defacto way, but no one actually reviews the traffic, and it's not sent to 3rd parties. - A government website uses a standard framework and that framework loads a google subdomain. In principle, Google could use this to track you but there's no evidence that this actually happens. - A website tracks user sessions so they can improve UI but don't sell that data to 3rd parties. - A website has many 3rd party domains, many of which are tracking domains. - Facebook knows exactly who you are and sells your information to real-time-bidding ad services. - Your cell phone's 3G connection must in principle triangulate you for the cell phone to function, but the resolution here is fuzzy. - You use Android and even when your GPS is turned "off" Google is still getting extremely high resolution of your location at all times and absolutely using that information to target you. A LOT of the privacy folks would put all those examples in the same category, and it absolutely drives me up a wall. It's purity-seeking at the expense of any meaningful distinction, or any meaningful investigation that actually allows uses to make informed decisions about their privacy.

Rygian 10mo ago
They belong in the same category: the end user has zero agency over how their privacy is impacted, and is at the whim of the wishes/agency of whoever is serving content to them. Whether the one serving the content is exploiting data at the present moment has very little relevance. Because the end user has no means to assert whether it is happening or not.
dylan604 10mo ago
> - A web site logs traffic in a sort of defacto way, but no one actually reviews the traffic, and it's not sent to 3rd parties. Even if this sounds innocent, these must be turned over if you are provided a warrant or subpoena (which ever would be appropriate, IANAL).
- Brian_K_White 10mo ago
  But it's not malicious. It's not ideal, and it should be addressed, but it's not bad faith or intentional spying or even gross negligence or incompetence.

amarant 10mo ago

We all mess up and miss things, op has shown maturity enough to admit to their mistakes and improve from them. My takeaway from this thread is an increased amount of trust in OP. Not because they made a mistake, but because of how they handled it. Well done OP!

lisbbb 10mo ago

Privacy was a joke--every time I gave someone my data that data got breached, including the US government.