4 ms·

MacOS was absolutely derived from BSD through NeXTSTEP.

by reactordev 10mo ago

bluGill 10mo ago
Large parts have been rewritten: they very different and don't show any BSD heritage.
- reactordev 10mo ago
  That may be true but a large core of it is still BSD. In fact, it’s so BSD that one could create a BSD distro based off FreeBSD and achieve binary compatibility on x86. Which is exactly what RavynOS [0] has done. There’s a lot of BSD under the hood of macOS still today in Darwin. A mix of FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD. [0] https://github.com/ravynsoft/ravynos https://github.com/ravynsoft/ravynos
AdieuToLogic 10mo ago
> MacOS was absolutely derived from BSD through NeXTSTEP. The OS-X (now branded as "macOS") kernel was not, and is not, a derivative of the FreeBSD kernel, or any other BSD, even though macOS/OS-X has a FreeBSD kernel component due to its Mach heritage. The userland tools are however BSD. OS-X's kernel is XNU and from the XNU GitHub repo[0]: XNU kernel is part of the Darwin operating system for use in macOS and iOS operating systems. XNU is an acronym for X is Not Unix. XNU is a hybrid kernel combining the Mach kernel developed at Carnegie Mellon University with components from FreeBSD and a C++ API for writing drivers called IOKit. XNU runs on x86_64 and ARM64 for both single processor and multi-processor configurations. I recommend the book "Mac OS X Internals"[1] for a detailed analysis of same. EDIT: In theory, XNU could simultaneously run the existing FreeBSD subsystem alongside Linux and/or MS-Windows ones. In practice, this would be a herculean effort fraught with difficulty. See QNX[2] for another example of a micro-kernel OS architecture. 0 - https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu 1 - https://books.apple.com/us/book/mac-os-x-internals/id434358349 https://books.apple.com/us/book/mac-os-x-internals/id4343583... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX
- p_ing 10mo ago
  Apple outlines the architecture here - https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/Architecture/Architecture.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...
  - reactordev 10mo ago
    >Darwin is based on proven technology from many sources. A large portion of this technology is derived from FreeBSD, a version of 4.4BSD that offers advanced networking, performance, security, and compatibility features. Other parts of the system software, such as Mach, are based on technology previously used in Apple’s MkLinux project, in OS X Server, and in technology acquired from NeXT. Exactly.
    - AdieuToLogic 10mo ago
      >>Darwin is based on proven technology from many sources. A large portion of this technology is derived from FreeBSD, a version of 4.4BSD that offers advanced networking, performance, security, and compatibility features. Other parts of the system software, such as Mach, are based on technology previously used in Apple’s MkLinux project, in OS X Server, and in technology acquired from NeXT. > Exactly. Darwin != XNU userland tools != Darwin Also, Mach[0] was created by CMU 40 years ago and is not "based on technology previously used in Apple’s ..." no matter what Apple claims. Since you quoted from the provided archive, so shall I. The fundamental services and primitives of the OS X kernel are based on Mach 3.0. Apple has modified and extended Mach to better meet OS X functional and performance goals.[1] Apple named the above "XNU". Since Mach[0] is a micro-kernel architecture, which FreeBSD is not and never has been, there must exist: The BSD portion of the OS X kernel is derived primarily from FreeBSD[2] ... What I originally stated was: The OS-X (now branded as "macOS") kernel was not, and is not, a derivative of the FreeBSD kernel, or any other BSD, even though macOS/OS-X has a FreeBSD kernel component due to its Mach heritage. In response to your assertion of: MacOS was absolutely derived from BSD through NeXTSTEP. Note my identification of the FreeBSD kernel component being a component, not the kernel itself. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_(kernel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_(kernel) 1 - https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/Mach/Mach.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000905-CH209-TPXREF101 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da... 2 - https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/BSD/BSD.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000905-CH214-TPXREF101 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...
lukeh 10mo ago
The first version of MacOS X Server was based on an unreleased version of NEXTSTEP which in turn used 4.4BSD and Mach 2.5. Around BBB 1997-1998 a lot of userland was synced with bits from not just FreeBSD but the other BSD distributions, if my memory serves me correctly. MacOS X moved to Mach 3. That’s a very very long time ago though, and Apple obviously did a _lot_ of their own CoreOS engineering, things like launchd and XPC don’t have FreeBSD equivalents. But hey, Darwin is open source so if someone wants to do go on a provenance archeological dig, it could be done!

MacOS was absolutely derived from BSD through NeXTSTEP.

bluGill 10mo ago

Large parts have been rewritten: they very different and don't show any BSD heritage.

reactordev 10mo ago
That may be true but a large core of it is still BSD. In fact, it’s so BSD that one could create a BSD distro based off FreeBSD and achieve binary compatibility on x86. Which is exactly what RavynOS [0] has done. There’s a lot of BSD under the hood of macOS still today in Darwin. A mix of FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD. [0] https://github.com/ravynsoft/ravynos https://github.com/ravynsoft/ravynos

AdieuToLogic 10mo ago

> MacOS was absolutely derived from BSD through NeXTSTEP. The OS-X (now branded as "macOS") kernel was not, and is not, a derivative of the FreeBSD kernel, or any other BSD, even though macOS/OS-X has a FreeBSD kernel component due to its Mach heritage. The userland tools are however BSD. OS-X's kernel is XNU and from the XNU GitHub repo[0]: XNU kernel is part of the Darwin operating system for use in macOS and iOS operating systems. XNU is an acronym for X is Not Unix. XNU is a hybrid kernel combining the Mach kernel developed at Carnegie Mellon University with components from FreeBSD and a C++ API for writing drivers called IOKit. XNU runs on x86_64 and ARM64 for both single processor and multi-processor configurations. I recommend the book "Mac OS X Internals"[1] for a detailed analysis of same. EDIT: In theory, XNU could simultaneously run the existing FreeBSD subsystem alongside Linux and/or MS-Windows ones. In practice, this would be a herculean effort fraught with difficulty. See QNX[2] for another example of a micro-kernel OS architecture. 0 - https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu 1 - https://books.apple.com/us/book/mac-os-x-internals/id434358349 https://books.apple.com/us/book/mac-os-x-internals/id4343583... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX

p_ing 10mo ago
Apple outlines the architecture here - https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/Architecture/Architecture.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...
- reactordev 10mo ago
  >Darwin is based on proven technology from many sources. A large portion of this technology is derived from FreeBSD, a version of 4.4BSD that offers advanced networking, performance, security, and compatibility features. Other parts of the system software, such as Mach, are based on technology previously used in Apple’s MkLinux project, in OS X Server, and in technology acquired from NeXT. Exactly.
  - AdieuToLogic 10mo ago
    >>Darwin is based on proven technology from many sources. A large portion of this technology is derived from FreeBSD, a version of 4.4BSD that offers advanced networking, performance, security, and compatibility features. Other parts of the system software, such as Mach, are based on technology previously used in Apple’s MkLinux project, in OS X Server, and in technology acquired from NeXT. > Exactly. Darwin != XNU userland tools != Darwin Also, Mach[0] was created by CMU 40 years ago and is not "based on technology previously used in Apple’s ..." no matter what Apple claims. Since you quoted from the provided archive, so shall I. The fundamental services and primitives of the OS X kernel are based on Mach 3.0. Apple has modified and extended Mach to better meet OS X functional and performance goals.[1] Apple named the above "XNU". Since Mach[0] is a micro-kernel architecture, which FreeBSD is not and never has been, there must exist: The BSD portion of the OS X kernel is derived primarily from FreeBSD[2] ... What I originally stated was: The OS-X (now branded as "macOS") kernel was not, and is not, a derivative of the FreeBSD kernel, or any other BSD, even though macOS/OS-X has a FreeBSD kernel component due to its Mach heritage. In response to your assertion of: MacOS was absolutely derived from BSD through NeXTSTEP. Note my identification of the FreeBSD kernel component being a component, not the kernel itself. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_(kernel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_(kernel) 1 - https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/Mach/Mach.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000905-CH209-TPXREF101 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da... 2 - https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/BSD/BSD.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000905-CH214-TPXREF101 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Da...

lukeh 10mo ago

The first version of MacOS X Server was based on an unreleased version of NEXTSTEP which in turn used 4.4BSD and Mach 2.5. Around BBB 1997-1998 a lot of userland was synced with bits from not just FreeBSD but the other BSD distributions, if my memory serves me correctly. MacOS X moved to Mach 3. That’s a very very long time ago though, and Apple obviously did a _lot_ of their own CoreOS engineering, things like launchd and XPC don’t have FreeBSD equivalents. But hey, Darwin is open source so if someone wants to do go on a provenance archeological dig, it could be done!