3 ms·

Have it as a stand alone plugin. I should have to manually install this AI stuff.

by 999900000999 10mo ago

worldsavior 10mo ago
You're not a normal user of Firefox then.
- 999900000999 10mo ago
  Who is a "normal" user. Normal users install Chrome.
  - bayindirh 10mo ago
    We want "normal" users to use Firefox, not to push it to a smaller niche with more force. Even though I don't like or use this "AI thingy", it should be equally easy to use and equally easy to disable. If Firefox can provide a more anonymized gate to these providers and guarantee that prompts are not used for training, this would be a net win for people who want to use AI but doesn't know better, i.e. the "normal" users.
    - reyqn 10mo ago
      That's how normal users stay on chrome while your users leave firefox. That's how you get no users at all.
      - andrepd 10mo ago
        Hardly. Hundreds of millions of "normies" want a browser that just "gets rid of ads and spam and stuff". If ff can be that go-to browser, they have hundreds of millions of potential users.
        reyqn 10mo ago
        Potential users are not users, and firefox can't be that browser. Actually that browser is brave, and it also doesn't have hundred of millions of users. You can't fight defaults browsers, people don't care.
        bayindirh 10mo ago
        I don't get this dark/pessimistic/Firefox's so done view many people love to harp. Do we want Firefox to return, or to die? We should decide and act accordingly. Telling Firefox to not to move and get out of the place where it currently is a great contradiction in itself. Many potential Chrome users were not users, and now they are. You can change public opinion by putting your money where your mouth is, and being persistent about it. Also, let's not forget that Firefox is kinda preventing itself being detected via standard mechanisms so global analytics show its numbers a bit low than the reality, as well.
        reyqn 10mo ago
        Many potential Chrome users were not users, and then android happened. I'll believe firefox has a shot to become mainstream when they do something similar. Until them, keep your users or alienate them and disappear.
        bayindirh 10mo ago
        I'll agree to disagree here and will leave to get a fresh mug of coffee. Unless we meet in another thread, merry Christmas and happy new year in advance.
- ivan_gammel 10mo ago
  Normal users will be fine if they will see two big squares side by side as an installation step: „with AI“ and „without AI“, where the former will just install and enable the plugin. Explicit choice is better than opt-out, and it’s not going to be something people frequently change their mind about, so another switch can be buried in settings.
- azemetre 10mo ago
  Firefox has <5% of browser share, no one is a normal user of firefox.
  - araes 10mo ago
    Was actually looking for somebody mentioning this bit. Admittedly, one of the few regular Firefox users. Yet, as a regular Firefox user, this much ranting about something that can be turned off with a click, is kind of annoying. The stuff that's been added so far ("Allow AI to read the beginning of the page and generate key points", "Solo AI Website Creator", "Sidebar AI chatbot") is incredibly easy to disable. Been in advanced, beta, dev releases for a while. Edge has a larger market share (4%-7% depending on who you ask) Firefox has (2%-6%, similar issue). Firefox mostly scores well among Wikimedia users and tracking. (High as 15% recently) Firefox barely even registers with Mobile users (0.5%-1.5%). And. They both pale in comparison to Chrome (56%-69%) and Safari (14%-24%) in terms of user base / market share. People can argue and rant about Firefox doing something, yet they're arguing about 2%-6% of the WWW users currently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://radar.cloudflare.com/reports/browser-market-share-2025-q1 https://radar.cloudflare.com/reports/browser-market-share-20... https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://www.statista.com/statistics/545520/market-share-of-internet-browsers-usa/?srsltid=AfmBOopOX59TUCkZ1QyWjJEufLKBSeM4Xp1cevYSEqkpfcKxYFLPmnH5 https://www.statista.com/statistics/545520/market-share-of-i...
  - werdnapk 10mo ago
    I've been a normal user of Firefox for over 20 years.
kotaKat 10mo ago
This. My browser should be a browser and nothing more. If I want more, I should be able to use an add-on. Stop baking everything in out of the box.
dietr1ch 10mo ago
The team (AND Marketing) should focus on saying it's a fast core browser with the extensions you want to make it yours. Have recommended extension sets ([uBlock, Sponsorblock], [Containerise, Sideberry, Decentraleyes], [AI translation + Dictionary/Thesaurus]). Make me want to use your AI features, don't just slap them on my face wishing I'll do more than get mad and try to get rid of them.
Tempest1981 10mo ago
Forcing everything into a plug-in is architecturally more complex, and less performant... I'm imagining proxying from native code through JavaScript APIs, then back to native code for LLM operations and context storage. But might lead to creation of some new AI extension APIs.
- 999900000999 10mo ago
  Then ship a FireFoxAI browser for users who want it. Forcing everyone to by default use AI isn't freedom. I might as well just use Chrome.
  - Tempest1981 10mo ago
    So now we're debating compile-time feature flags vs run-time, and the overhead of running/maintaining multiple build configs. And picking good names for each... "Firefox Pro with AI" vs "Firefox Lite for Engineers". This isn't what Mozilla needs to be focusing on right now, imo.
    - 999900000999 10mo ago
      With over 600 million in revenue they can afford to put up a different page for Firefox AI. A large percentage of users, particularly Firefox users , don't want this AI stuff built in. Where does this AI even run. Does it have to make an API requests to send all of the webpages I view somewhere else ? Is it even my computer anymore, my browser, or am I sharing it with people who want to extract more money from me. As is Google forced me to view often incorrect AI summaries when I have no interest in them. Do I want the only real Chrome competitor to also force bad ai content in my face ?
  - prmoustache 10mo ago
    Is it using AI if you don't click on the feature's related button? AFAIK when I choose to translate a page or a selection it only starts working when I do it.
RunSet 10mo ago
Language models are not like the Classic Theme, which can be relegated to an extension (now defunct). Language models are like Hello, Pocket, and Sync. Core browser features one and all that must silently run by default unless explicitly disabled.
- sfRattan 10mo ago
  Sync is the only feature you listed which is arguably a core feature, in that it makes sense to build into the browser to be able to sync as much of the browser's settings and data as possible for the user. Everything else --- Hello, Pocket, and LLMs --- can and should sink or swim as extensions which the user must seek out and install if they provide sufficient value.
- tjpnz 10mo ago
  You won't find much relating to Pocket or Hello in the OSS project. I predict a lot of the new AI functionality will stay out too. So not core functionality.
unethical_ban 10mo ago
I should have to manually install this bookmarks stuff. I should have to manually install this search bar stuff. I should have to manually install this FTP client stuff (okay that last one is the case)

Have it as a stand alone plugin. I should have to manually install this AI stuff.

worldsavior 10mo ago

You're not a normal user of Firefox then.

999900000999 10mo ago
Who is a "normal" user. Normal users install Chrome.
- bayindirh 10mo ago
  We want "normal" users to use Firefox, not to push it to a smaller niche with more force. Even though I don't like or use this "AI thingy", it should be equally easy to use and equally easy to disable. If Firefox can provide a more anonymized gate to these providers and guarantee that prompts are not used for training, this would be a net win for people who want to use AI but doesn't know better, i.e. the "normal" users.
  - reyqn 10mo ago
    That's how normal users stay on chrome while your users leave firefox. That's how you get no users at all.
    - andrepd 10mo ago
      Hardly. Hundreds of millions of "normies" want a browser that just "gets rid of ads and spam and stuff". If ff can be that go-to browser, they have hundreds of millions of potential users.
      - reyqn 10mo ago
        Potential users are not users, and firefox can't be that browser. Actually that browser is brave, and it also doesn't have hundred of millions of users. You can't fight defaults browsers, people don't care.
        bayindirh 10mo ago
        I don't get this dark/pessimistic/Firefox's so done view many people love to harp. Do we want Firefox to return, or to die? We should decide and act accordingly. Telling Firefox to not to move and get out of the place where it currently is a great contradiction in itself. Many potential Chrome users were not users, and now they are. You can change public opinion by putting your money where your mouth is, and being persistent about it. Also, let's not forget that Firefox is kinda preventing itself being detected via standard mechanisms so global analytics show its numbers a bit low than the reality, as well.
        reyqn 10mo ago
        Many potential Chrome users were not users, and then android happened. I'll believe firefox has a shot to become mainstream when they do something similar. Until them, keep your users or alienate them and disappear.
        bayindirh 10mo ago
        I'll agree to disagree here and will leave to get a fresh mug of coffee. Unless we meet in another thread, merry Christmas and happy new year in advance.
ivan_gammel 10mo ago
Normal users will be fine if they will see two big squares side by side as an installation step: „with AI“ and „without AI“, where the former will just install and enable the plugin. Explicit choice is better than opt-out, and it’s not going to be something people frequently change their mind about, so another switch can be buried in settings.
azemetre 10mo ago
Firefox has <5% of browser share, no one is a normal user of firefox.
- araes 10mo ago
  Was actually looking for somebody mentioning this bit. Admittedly, one of the few regular Firefox users. Yet, as a regular Firefox user, this much ranting about something that can be turned off with a click, is kind of annoying. The stuff that's been added so far ("Allow AI to read the beginning of the page and generate key points", "Solo AI Website Creator", "Sidebar AI chatbot") is incredibly easy to disable. Been in advanced, beta, dev releases for a while. Edge has a larger market share (4%-7% depending on who you ask) Firefox has (2%-6%, similar issue). Firefox mostly scores well among Wikimedia users and tracking. (High as 15% recently) Firefox barely even registers with Mobile users (0.5%-1.5%). And. They both pale in comparison to Chrome (56%-69%) and Safari (14%-24%) in terms of user base / market share. People can argue and rant about Firefox doing something, yet they're arguing about 2%-6% of the WWW users currently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://radar.cloudflare.com/reports/browser-market-share-2025-q1 https://radar.cloudflare.com/reports/browser-market-share-20... https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ https://kinsta.com/browser-market-share/ https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share https://www.statista.com/statistics/545520/market-share-of-internet-browsers-usa/?srsltid=AfmBOopOX59TUCkZ1QyWjJEufLKBSeM4Xp1cevYSEqkpfcKxYFLPmnH5 https://www.statista.com/statistics/545520/market-share-of-i...
- werdnapk 10mo ago
  I've been a normal user of Firefox for over 20 years.

kotaKat 10mo ago

This. My browser should be a browser and nothing more. If I want more, I should be able to use an add-on. Stop baking everything in out of the box.

dietr1ch 10mo ago

The team (AND Marketing) should focus on saying it's a fast core browser with the extensions you want to make it yours. Have recommended extension sets ([uBlock, Sponsorblock], [Containerise, Sideberry, Decentraleyes], [AI translation + Dictionary/Thesaurus]). Make me want to use your AI features, don't just slap them on my face wishing I'll do more than get mad and try to get rid of them.

Tempest1981 10mo ago

Forcing everything into a plug-in is architecturally more complex, and less performant... I'm imagining proxying from native code through JavaScript APIs, then back to native code for LLM operations and context storage. But might lead to creation of some new AI extension APIs.

999900000999 10mo ago
Then ship a FireFoxAI browser for users who want it. Forcing everyone to by default use AI isn't freedom. I might as well just use Chrome.
- Tempest1981 10mo ago
  So now we're debating compile-time feature flags vs run-time, and the overhead of running/maintaining multiple build configs. And picking good names for each... "Firefox Pro with AI" vs "Firefox Lite for Engineers". This isn't what Mozilla needs to be focusing on right now, imo.
  - 999900000999 10mo ago
    With over 600 million in revenue they can afford to put up a different page for Firefox AI. A large percentage of users, particularly Firefox users , don't want this AI stuff built in. Where does this AI even run. Does it have to make an API requests to send all of the webpages I view somewhere else ? Is it even my computer anymore, my browser, or am I sharing it with people who want to extract more money from me. As is Google forced me to view often incorrect AI summaries when I have no interest in them. Do I want the only real Chrome competitor to also force bad ai content in my face ?
- prmoustache 10mo ago
  Is it using AI if you don't click on the feature's related button? AFAIK when I choose to translate a page or a selection it only starts working when I do it.

RunSet 10mo ago

Language models are not like the Classic Theme, which can be relegated to an extension (now defunct). Language models are like Hello, Pocket, and Sync. Core browser features one and all that must silently run by default unless explicitly disabled.

sfRattan 10mo ago
Sync is the only feature you listed which is arguably a core feature, in that it makes sense to build into the browser to be able to sync as much of the browser's settings and data as possible for the user. Everything else --- Hello, Pocket, and LLMs --- can and should sink or swim as extensions which the user must seek out and install if they provide sufficient value.
tjpnz 10mo ago
You won't find much relating to Pocket or Hello in the OSS project. I predict a lot of the new AI functionality will stay out too. So not core functionality.

unethical_ban 10mo ago

I should have to manually install this bookmarks stuff. I should have to manually install this search bar stuff. I should have to manually install this FTP client stuff (okay that last one is the case)