4 ms·

Curtains should also fall under the same category because they do make it more difficult for UK security and intelligence agencies to monitor suspect activities

by gbil 10mo ago

Curtains should also fall under the same category because they do make it more difficult for UK security and intelligence agencies to monitor suspect activities. Then of course you also have walls... The argument is so fundamentally stupid that they should be embarrassed just putting it down in writing!

debugnik 10mo ago
Don't worry, WiFi sensing will eventually remove our walls and curtains for free in that respect.
- everdrive 10mo ago
  And if this were weaponized in a big way, you'd still have people leaving their wifi enabled, but complaining "why can we regulate this problem away!"
- dylan604 10mo ago
  We'd probably see new regulations mandating WiFi 7, and making anything older illegal
- kevin_thibedeau 10mo ago
  Aluminum siding will make a comeback.
  - iamacyborg 10mo ago
    Unlikely after Grenfell.
gnfargbl 10mo ago
Both you and the poster above you may be misunderstanding the point that Jonathan Hall KC appears to be making. If you take a look at what he actually writes [1], then it is pretty clear that he is presenting these hypothetical cases as examples of obvious over-reach. This is a warning from the independent reviewer that the law is too potentially broad, not an argument to retain these powers. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69411a3eadb5707d9f33d7e8/E03512978_-_Un-Act_The_National_Security_Act_in_2024_Accessible.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69411a3eadb57..., pages 112 and 113
pksebben 10mo ago
This cuts to one of the critical issues with governance globally in this era. For a really long time, we relied on social norms and mores to keep governments in check - and astonishingly it worked at least a little. Embarrassment was a good proxy for well constituted rules of representation. What right-wing institutions have noticed all around the world is that you can just kind of ignore all that shit now. Centrists are flailing around begging for an explanation for "how this could happen" and folks on the left, marginalized for years in favor of free markets, are just kind of facepalming and saying we told you so. You need to put it in writing somewhere that there's a limit on governmental authority and enforce the hell out of it. You need to do the same to clamp down on the power of special interests and corporations. More than anything, you need robust mechanisms that make government representatives vulnerable to the voting public. The people need to be the ones that they scramble to please and when we get mad that should be dangerous and difficult for those holding the reins of government. Their existence needs to depend on the mandate of the public.
- coderenegade 10mo ago
  It boggles my mind that you think this stuff is being pushed by the right. Expansion of government and surveillance is a hallmark of the left, and indeed this latest wave of surveillance is being pushed by progressive governments in Western Europe and Australia. Governments of both flavours are ignoring the voting public, for various reasons, e.g. they are signatory to agreements that no longer work for the public but are difficult to break, the public is increasingly economically irrelevant compared to businesses, and, of course, the greedy self-interest of the politicians themselves. I agree with you on the third paragraph, but it's also the reason that I believe the US will be okay compared to other Western democracies (an opinion I'm not sure you would share, judging by your post). The Constitution is already a thing, and is on its own a declaration that certain rights derive from a higher authority than government. The second amendment in particular is under siege (again, by the left), but does equalize things in a way that many of its opponents are reluctant to admit.
  - pksebben 10mo ago
    The constitution is being summarily ignored by the current administration. There is a right to trial in there that we've just totally blown past, and the deep integration between party insiders and media consolidation is a sideways assault on the first amendment. The idea that "they're coming for your guns" is something we can begin to discuss when the first step to curb our mass shooting problem is actually taken. For now, it's a little ridiculous to infer that there's any kind of 'siege' on the second amendment given that we have them all the damn time and they're not slowing down. I would ask folks in the EU whether they think they're leaning left at the moment. Reading their news it doesn't seem to be the case [0 1 2 3]. Just out of curiosity - in what concrete way do you think the second amendment serves as an equalizer? Do you imagine that the government sees an armed populace as any kind of a threat? Leaving the left-right debate behind for just a second - I smell that there is something perhaps we may agree on. Representation is fundamentally broken. Even given our ideological differences, how do you feel about direct democracy? I think we'd benefit. 0 - https://www.ibanet.org/The-year-of-elections-The-rise-of-Europes-far-right https://www.ibanet.org/The-year-of-elections-The-rise-of-Eur... 1 - https://ecfr.eu/publication/rise-to-the-challengers-europes-populist-parties-and-its-foreign-policy-future/ https://ecfr.eu/publication/rise-to-the-challengers-europes-... 2 - https://fortune.com/europe/2025/02/25/europe-far-right-movement-german-elections-meloni-nationalist/ https://fortune.com/europe/2025/02/25/europe-far-right-movem... 3 - https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/12/24/european-political-landscape-shifts-right-in-2024-as-far-right-gains-ground https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/12/24/european-polit...

by gbil 10mo ago

debugnik 10mo ago

Don't worry, WiFi sensing will eventually remove our walls and curtains for free in that respect.

everdrive 10mo ago
And if this were weaponized in a big way, you'd still have people leaving their wifi enabled, but complaining "why can we regulate this problem away!"
dylan604 10mo ago
We'd probably see new regulations mandating WiFi 7, and making anything older illegal
kevin_thibedeau 10mo ago
Aluminum siding will make a comeback.
- iamacyborg 10mo ago
  Unlikely after Grenfell.

gnfargbl 10mo ago

Both you and the poster above you may be misunderstanding the point that Jonathan Hall KC appears to be making. If you take a look at what he actually writes [1], then it is pretty clear that he is presenting these hypothetical cases as examples of obvious over-reach. This is a warning from the independent reviewer that the law is too potentially broad, not an argument to retain these powers. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69411a3eadb5707d9f33d7e8/E03512978_-_Un-Act_The_National_Security_Act_in_2024_Accessible.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69411a3eadb57..., pages 112 and 113

pksebben 10mo ago

This cuts to one of the critical issues with governance globally in this era. For a really long time, we relied on social norms and mores to keep governments in check - and astonishingly it worked at least a little. Embarrassment was a good proxy for well constituted rules of representation. What right-wing institutions have noticed all around the world is that you can just kind of ignore all that shit now. Centrists are flailing around begging for an explanation for "how this could happen" and folks on the left, marginalized for years in favor of free markets, are just kind of facepalming and saying we told you so. You need to put it in writing somewhere that there's a limit on governmental authority and enforce the hell out of it. You need to do the same to clamp down on the power of special interests and corporations. More than anything, you need robust mechanisms that make government representatives vulnerable to the voting public. The people need to be the ones that they scramble to please and when we get mad that should be dangerous and difficult for those holding the reins of government. Their existence needs to depend on the mandate of the public.

coderenegade 10mo ago
It boggles my mind that you think this stuff is being pushed by the right. Expansion of government and surveillance is a hallmark of the left, and indeed this latest wave of surveillance is being pushed by progressive governments in Western Europe and Australia. Governments of both flavours are ignoring the voting public, for various reasons, e.g. they are signatory to agreements that no longer work for the public but are difficult to break, the public is increasingly economically irrelevant compared to businesses, and, of course, the greedy self-interest of the politicians themselves. I agree with you on the third paragraph, but it's also the reason that I believe the US will be okay compared to other Western democracies (an opinion I'm not sure you would share, judging by your post). The Constitution is already a thing, and is on its own a declaration that certain rights derive from a higher authority than government. The second amendment in particular is under siege (again, by the left), but does equalize things in a way that many of its opponents are reluctant to admit.
- pksebben 10mo ago
  The constitution is being summarily ignored by the current administration. There is a right to trial in there that we've just totally blown past, and the deep integration between party insiders and media consolidation is a sideways assault on the first amendment. The idea that "they're coming for your guns" is something we can begin to discuss when the first step to curb our mass shooting problem is actually taken. For now, it's a little ridiculous to infer that there's any kind of 'siege' on the second amendment given that we have them all the damn time and they're not slowing down. I would ask folks in the EU whether they think they're leaning left at the moment. Reading their news it doesn't seem to be the case [0 1 2 3]. Just out of curiosity - in what concrete way do you think the second amendment serves as an equalizer? Do you imagine that the government sees an armed populace as any kind of a threat? Leaving the left-right debate behind for just a second - I smell that there is something perhaps we may agree on. Representation is fundamentally broken. Even given our ideological differences, how do you feel about direct democracy? I think we'd benefit. 0 - https://www.ibanet.org/The-year-of-elections-The-rise-of-Europes-far-right https://www.ibanet.org/The-year-of-elections-The-rise-of-Eur... 1 - https://ecfr.eu/publication/rise-to-the-challengers-europes-populist-parties-and-its-foreign-policy-future/ https://ecfr.eu/publication/rise-to-the-challengers-europes-... 2 - https://fortune.com/europe/2025/02/25/europe-far-right-movement-german-elections-meloni-nationalist/ https://fortune.com/europe/2025/02/25/europe-far-right-movem... 3 - https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/12/24/european-political-landscape-shifts-right-in-2024-as-far-right-gains-ground https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/12/24/european-polit...