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The US wielding the sanctions banhammer the way they have been recently will only weaken its power over time and create opportunity for economic rivals like Chi

The US wielding the sanctions banhammer the way they have been recently will only weaken its power over time and create opportunity for economic rivals like China. Every time they (mis)use it they create incentive for people to create alternatives to the US financial system. You won't see sanctions become completely completely toothless overnight, but I could see in maybe 15-20 years that getting around US sanctions will be a mere inconvenience.

SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago
It might create opportunity for the EU. China routinely deploys similar sanctions against people who e.g. recognize the independence of Taiwan or refuse to buy cotton from Xinjiang.
- drnick1 10mo ago
  The only problem is that the EU is kind of irrelevant when it comes to "financial systems."
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - croes 10mo ago
    It’s enough if they create an inter-EU system. The loss for a the US services would be big enough. Same way the Euro threatened the US Dollar
jameshilliard 10mo ago
> The US wielding the sanctions banhammer the way they have been recently will only weaken its power over time and create opportunity for economic rivals like China. China is not party to the Rome Statute, just like the US and Israel, I would expect they would retaliate against the ICC if the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Xi Jinping. > Every time they (mis)use it they create incentive for people to create alternatives to the US financial system. I think the ICC has much bigger credibility issues trying to impose jurisdiction over conflicts involving countries that are not parties to the Rome Statute.
- nielsbot 10mo ago
  > I think the ICC has much bigger credibility issues trying to impose jurisdiction over conflicts involving countries that are not parties to the Rome Statute. such as…?
  - jameshilliard 10mo ago
    > such as…? Israel and the US for example.
    - arunabha 10mo ago
      Way to go not answering the question. The Romans has a pretty apt saying for cases like this Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses
    - croes 10mo ago
      The ICC is responsibility if the crime is committed by a citizen or happens in the territory of a state party of the Rome Statute. Palestine is such a state party Additionally the UN can hand over cases in non-state parties to the ICC. IIRC that also happened.
      - jameshilliard 10mo ago
        > The ICC is responsibility if the crime is committed by a citizen or happens in the territory of a state party of the Rome Statute. Palestine is such a state party Depends on how you define a state, Palestine not being a full state able to delegate jurisdiction is a big argument against the ICC having any jurisdiction over the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Palestine is neither a full UN member state, nor a state recognized by either the US or Israel. The ICC appears to be trying to set some of precedent for an extremely broad interpretation of their jurisdiction which is clearly at odds with US/Israel views. > Additionally the UN can hand over cases in non-state parties to the ICC. IIRC that also happened. What case was that?
- aaomidi 10mo ago
  > I would expect they would retaliate against the ICC if the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Xi Jinping. Funny that we’re using this example when the ICC has issued a warrant against someone who isn’t the US head of state

SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago

It might create opportunity for the EU. China routinely deploys similar sanctions against people who e.g. recognize the independence of Taiwan or refuse to buy cotton from Xinjiang.

drnick1 10mo ago
The only problem is that the EU is kind of irrelevant when it comes to "financial systems."
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- croes 10mo ago
  It’s enough if they create an inter-EU system. The loss for a the US services would be big enough. Same way the Euro threatened the US Dollar

jameshilliard 10mo ago

> The US wielding the sanctions banhammer the way they have been recently will only weaken its power over time and create opportunity for economic rivals like China. China is not party to the Rome Statute, just like the US and Israel, I would expect they would retaliate against the ICC if the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Xi Jinping. > Every time they (mis)use it they create incentive for people to create alternatives to the US financial system. I think the ICC has much bigger credibility issues trying to impose jurisdiction over conflicts involving countries that are not parties to the Rome Statute.

nielsbot 10mo ago
> I think the ICC has much bigger credibility issues trying to impose jurisdiction over conflicts involving countries that are not parties to the Rome Statute. such as…?
- jameshilliard 10mo ago
  > such as…? Israel and the US for example.
  - arunabha 10mo ago
    Way to go not answering the question. The Romans has a pretty apt saying for cases like this Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses
  - croes 10mo ago
    The ICC is responsibility if the crime is committed by a citizen or happens in the territory of a state party of the Rome Statute. Palestine is such a state party Additionally the UN can hand over cases in non-state parties to the ICC. IIRC that also happened.
    - jameshilliard 10mo ago
      > The ICC is responsibility if the crime is committed by a citizen or happens in the territory of a state party of the Rome Statute. Palestine is such a state party Depends on how you define a state, Palestine not being a full state able to delegate jurisdiction is a big argument against the ICC having any jurisdiction over the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Palestine is neither a full UN member state, nor a state recognized by either the US or Israel. The ICC appears to be trying to set some of precedent for an extremely broad interpretation of their jurisdiction which is clearly at odds with US/Israel views. > Additionally the UN can hand over cases in non-state parties to the ICC. IIRC that also happened. What case was that?
aaomidi 10mo ago
> I would expect they would retaliate against the ICC if the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Xi Jinping. Funny that we’re using this example when the ICC has issued a warrant against someone who isn’t the US head of state