3 ms·

Linux computer designed with AI boots on first attempt

79 points by whynotmaybe 10mo ago

https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun

free_bip 10mo ago
Designed with AI, not by AI.
- dang 10mo ago
  Nice—we've unbyed and withed the title above. Thanks!
  - Modified3019 10mo ago
    > we've unbyed and withed the title above Took me a few reads to realize this wasn’t some sort of Irish slang
nancyminusone 10mo ago
What does "designed by AI" mean this time? The output appears to be a set of Gerbers, BOM and pick/place files, but what was the input? 1. A schematic of a reference design with all components specified, and a library of components with correct footprints. 2. A block diagram with the major components, but nothing too specific. Free reign of Digikey.com. 3. "Computer, make me a linux board, and make it snappy!" (I think 1 is closest)
- thomascountz 10mo ago
  We chose to base our System-on-Module (SOM) + baseboard designs on the NXP i.MX 8M Mini evaluation platform Staff Electrical Engineer Ben Jordan prepared the design and constraints for the boards and submitted the jobs. Quilter ran parallel seeded runs with varied constraints, completing the layout in 27 hours, returning multiple ranked candidates. Quilter took care of the repetitive design work while the engineer stayed in control. Automation handled placement, routing, and physics checks, freeing him to focus on firmware prep, documentation, and constraint refinement. Common supply-chain hiccups—a few connectors out of stock and a Wi-Fi module dropped—were resolved instantly, with no delay to iteration. Cleanup was minimal: PDN pours, via clusters, and minor footprint swaps—no rip-ups, no re-spins. Source: https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun
hasbot 10mo ago
Probably should have linked to the actual report and not a second-hand condensation of it: https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun# https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun#
- dang 10mo ago
  That home page is so promotional that it will probably generate (even) worse responses but we can at least put it in the toptext above. Thanks!
thomascountz 10mo ago
AFAICT the tool routed the PCB from an existing schematic. It did not "design" the computer. NXP publishes full schematics and CAD files for this platform, originally designed in Cadence Allegro. Our goal was to keep the schematic identical and prove out only the layout portion with Quilter. That gave us a clear baseline: if the board didn't work, it would be due to our layout. Source: https://www.quilter.ai/blog/preparing-an-ai-designed-computer https://www.quilter.ai/blog/preparing-an-ai-designed-compute...
- simcop2387 10mo ago
  Pretty reasonable place to start. I'm curious how it would fare in an emc/rf test.
  - dlcarrier 10mo ago
    It is a reasonable place to start. So much so that autorouters have been around for practically as long as computers have, and they've been better at it than people for most of that time. The only reason people usually route PCBs is that defining the constraints for an autorouter is generally more work than just manually routing a small PCB, but within semiconductors autorouting overtook manual routing decades ago.
    - webdevver 10mo ago
      it is surprising (or not?) that there is such a vast gulf in terms of automated tooling between the semiconductor world and pcb routing world. i guess maybe there are less degrees of freedom and more 'regularity' in the semiconductor space? sort of like a fish swimming in an amorphous ocean vs. having to navigate uneven terrain with legs and feet. the fish in some sense is operating in a much more 'elegant' space, and that is reflected in the (beautiful?) simplicity of fish vs. all the weird 'nonlinear' appendages sticking out of terrestrial animals - the guys who walk are facing a more complicated problem space. i guess with pcbs you have 'weird' or annoying constraints like package dimensions, via size, hole size, trace thickness, limited layer count, etc.
rasz 10mo ago
> Normally, this kind of project would require approximately three months for a skilled human engineer (approximately 430 hours of work). Creative marketing speak. Its most likely true in a corporate environment with a teams trying to coordinate their little fiefdoms, but not the case for a single engineer. Overestimated by ~one order of magnitude. >With just one week of AI-powered processing, augmented by 38.5 hours of human expert assistance, the Project Speedrun computer was completed. 40 hours of human expert supervising. For reference https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1714585446/chronos-14-high-speed-camera https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1714585446/chronos-14-h... You can watch layout process time lapse of the most difficult part of this products PCB by creator Tesla500 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41r3kKm_FME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41r3kKm_FME "Total time to layout ~38 hours." - _13 years ago_, nowadays most of the things one would struggle back then got automated. 40 hours for Zync to DDR3 interface, what is left are power supplies and low speed stuff. Overview of the project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU2aHMbiAkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU2aHMbiAkU It took Ben almost as long to cleanup after AI as it took Tesla500 to design SOM from the ground up when DDR3 was still quite new and state of the art. >Engineers preferred larger polygons for power distribution than Quilter originally produced. Enlarging these pours required opening space, shifting traces, and re-routing small regions to accommodate the changes. No kidding, their tool generated nice fat power traces up to the first tight spot, and then gave up and bam 2mil tracks (VDDA_1V8 VDD_1V8) :D almost un-manufacturable at jlcpcb/pcbway (they have asterisks at 2mil) and very bad for power distribution (brownouts). >The goal was to match human comfort levels for power-distribution robustness. nah, in this particular case the goal was making it manufacturable and able to function at all. Human replaced those hilarious 2 mil traces with proper 15 mil ones. And you cant just click on a track and brrrrt it from 2 to 15mil as they themselves admit: >Enlarging polygons often required freeing routing channels, which triggered additional micro-moves and refinements Human EE had to go in, rip out more than half (the actually time consuming half) of the generated garbage and lay it out manually. Those "micro-moves" involved completely re-arranging layer stack moving whole swaths of signals to different layers, shuffling vias etc. >Once via delays were included, several tuned routes no longer met their targets. The team re-balanced these nets manually. "re-balanced" being colloquialism for ripped all the actually difficult to route parts and re-did manually. AI didnt even try to length match flash. Just autorouted like you would 8MHz Arduino board. ENET_TD2 - what the hell happened there? :D Signal is doing a loop/knot over itself while crossing 3 layers, Ben was probably too tired of AI shenanigans at this point and didnt catch it instead elongating ENET_TD1 to length match this lemon. Comparing SOM AI output vs human "expert assistance" there is very little left from the AI. Almost every important track was touched/re-done from scratch by human hand. Ben (or another EE they didnt mention) did an amazing job salvaging this design into something actually working. This is my impression after a quick glance. I didnt try looking for problems very hard, didnt look into component placement (caps, would required reading datasheets) or ran any FEM tools.
foxglacier 10mo ago
Had a laugh at SBC using dual PCBs. I guess the meaning of SBC has drifted a little from the literal description.
knowitnone3 10mo ago
So computers should be much less expensive then? Fewer engineers needed should mean much lower cost computers...Right? RIGHT?
- Legend2440 10mo ago
  Computers are already cheap enough to put in single-use pregnancy tests, what more do you want.
  - nineteen999 10mo ago
    I want to play Doom on a pregnancy test! https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ncmegl/doom_running_on_a_pregnancy_test/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ncmegl/doom_running... Just imagine a Beowulf cluster of these.
dmitrygr 10mo ago
"We chose to base our System-on-Module (SOM) " Holy clickbait, batman! The hard parts were done for them! All the fast signals like DDR are on the SoM, designed by real humans who understand EE. To make it all even more of a lie, their design is basically a copy of the reference base-board for the SoM. "Boots on first attempt" well, duh! the SoM is self-contained. It boots all by itself as is... so no wonder that it boots. No EMC results either. Making things work is 10% of the work. Passing certs on unintended emissions and making it stable is the other 150%.
- rasz 10mo ago
  They designed both SOC and IO boards.
- homeless_engi 10mo ago
  My reading of this is that they asked the system to redesign the PCB that was used in the i.MX 8M reference system-on-module. It looks like they take a parts list, a PCB shape, and a rough floorplan and pass that to their tool, which spits out a PCB design. https://www.quilter.ai/blog/preparing-an-ai-designed-computer https://www.quilter.ai/blog/preparing-an-ai-designed-compute... I could actually see myself using this tool, as someone who trained as an EE and still likes to tinker with electronics. It would be fun to just assemble a parts list and a rough layout and then receive a working electronic device a few weeks later with minimal work.
aviat 10mo ago
Somebody design a CHRP PowerPC framework motherboard with AI, Please!

79 points by whynotmaybe 10mo ago

https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun

free_bip 10mo ago

Designed with AI, not by AI.

dang 10mo ago
Nice—we've unbyed and withed the title above. Thanks!
- Modified3019 10mo ago
  > we've unbyed and withed the title above Took me a few reads to realize this wasn’t some sort of Irish slang

nancyminusone 10mo ago

What does "designed by AI" mean this time? The output appears to be a set of Gerbers, BOM and pick/place files, but what was the input? 1. A schematic of a reference design with all components specified, and a library of components with correct footprints. 2. A block diagram with the major components, but nothing too specific. Free reign of Digikey.com. 3. "Computer, make me a linux board, and make it snappy!" (I think 1 is closest)

thomascountz 10mo ago
We chose to base our System-on-Module (SOM) + baseboard designs on the NXP i.MX 8M Mini evaluation platform Staff Electrical Engineer Ben Jordan prepared the design and constraints for the boards and submitted the jobs. Quilter ran parallel seeded runs with varied constraints, completing the layout in 27 hours, returning multiple ranked candidates. Quilter took care of the repetitive design work while the engineer stayed in control. Automation handled placement, routing, and physics checks, freeing him to focus on firmware prep, documentation, and constraint refinement. Common supply-chain hiccups—a few connectors out of stock and a Wi-Fi module dropped—were resolved instantly, with no delay to iteration. Cleanup was minimal: PDN pours, via clusters, and minor footprint swaps—no rip-ups, no re-spins. Source: https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun

hasbot 10mo ago

Probably should have linked to the actual report and not a second-hand condensation of it: https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun# https://www.quilter.ai/project-speedrun#

dang 10mo ago
That home page is so promotional that it will probably generate (even) worse responses but we can at least put it in the toptext above. Thanks!

thomascountz 10mo ago

AFAICT the tool routed the PCB from an existing schematic. It did not "design" the computer. NXP publishes full schematics and CAD files for this platform, originally designed in Cadence Allegro. Our goal was to keep the schematic identical and prove out only the layout portion with Quilter. That gave us a clear baseline: if the board didn't work, it would be due to our layout. Source: https://www.quilter.ai/blog/preparing-an-ai-designed-computer https://www.quilter.ai/blog/preparing-an-ai-designed-compute...

simcop2387 10mo ago
Pretty reasonable place to start. I'm curious how it would fare in an emc/rf test.
- dlcarrier 10mo ago
  It is a reasonable place to start. So much so that autorouters have been around for practically as long as computers have, and they've been better at it than people for most of that time. The only reason people usually route PCBs is that defining the constraints for an autorouter is generally more work than just manually routing a small PCB, but within semiconductors autorouting overtook manual routing decades ago.
  - webdevver 10mo ago
    it is surprising (or not?) that there is such a vast gulf in terms of automated tooling between the semiconductor world and pcb routing world. i guess maybe there are less degrees of freedom and more 'regularity' in the semiconductor space? sort of like a fish swimming in an amorphous ocean vs. having to navigate uneven terrain with legs and feet. the fish in some sense is operating in a much more 'elegant' space, and that is reflected in the (beautiful?) simplicity of fish vs. all the weird 'nonlinear' appendages sticking out of terrestrial animals - the guys who walk are facing a more complicated problem space. i guess with pcbs you have 'weird' or annoying constraints like package dimensions, via size, hole size, trace thickness, limited layer count, etc.

rasz 10mo ago

> Normally, this kind of project would require approximately three months for a skilled human engineer (approximately 430 hours of work). Creative marketing speak. Its most likely true in a corporate environment with a teams trying to coordinate their little fiefdoms, but not the case for a single engineer. Overestimated by ~one order of magnitude. >With just one week of AI-powered processing, augmented by 38.5 hours of human expert assistance, the Project Speedrun computer was completed. 40 hours of human expert supervising. For reference https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1714585446/chronos-14-high-speed-camera https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1714585446/chronos-14-h... You can watch layout process time lapse of the most difficult part of this products PCB by creator Tesla500 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41r3kKm_FME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41r3kKm_FME "Total time to layout ~38 hours." - _13 years ago_, nowadays most of the things one would struggle back then got automated. 40 hours for Zync to DDR3 interface, what is left are power supplies and low speed stuff. Overview of the project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU2aHMbiAkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU2aHMbiAkU It took Ben almost as long to cleanup after AI as it took Tesla500 to design SOM from the ground up when DDR3 was still quite new and state of the art. >Engineers preferred larger polygons for power distribution than Quilter originally produced. Enlarging these pours required opening space, shifting traces, and re-routing small regions to accommodate the changes. No kidding, their tool generated nice fat power traces up to the first tight spot, and then gave up and bam 2mil tracks (VDDA_1V8 VDD_1V8) :D almost un-manufacturable at jlcpcb/pcbway (they have asterisks at 2mil) and very bad for power distribution (brownouts). >The goal was to match human comfort levels for power-distribution robustness. nah, in this particular case the goal was making it manufacturable and able to function at all. Human replaced those hilarious 2 mil traces with proper 15 mil ones. And you cant just click on a track and brrrrt it from 2 to 15mil as they themselves admit: >Enlarging polygons often required freeing routing channels, which triggered additional micro-moves and refinements Human EE had to go in, rip out more than half (the actually time consuming half) of the generated garbage and lay it out manually. Those "micro-moves" involved completely re-arranging layer stack moving whole swaths of signals to different layers, shuffling vias etc. >Once via delays were included, several tuned routes no longer met their targets. The team re-balanced these nets manually. "re-balanced" being colloquialism for ripped all the actually difficult to route parts and re-did manually. AI didnt even try to length match flash. Just autorouted like you would 8MHz Arduino board. ENET_TD2 - what the hell happened there? :D Signal is doing a loop/knot over itself while crossing 3 layers, Ben was probably too tired of AI shenanigans at this point and didnt catch it instead elongating ENET_TD1 to length match this lemon. Comparing SOM AI output vs human "expert assistance" there is very little left from the AI. Almost every important track was touched/re-done from scratch by human hand. Ben (or another EE they didnt mention) did an amazing job salvaging this design into something actually working. This is my impression after a quick glance. I didnt try looking for problems very hard, didnt look into component placement (caps, would required reading datasheets) or ran any FEM tools.

foxglacier 10mo ago

Had a laugh at SBC using dual PCBs. I guess the meaning of SBC has drifted a little from the literal description.

knowitnone3 10mo ago

So computers should be much less expensive then? Fewer engineers needed should mean much lower cost computers...Right? RIGHT?

Legend2440 10mo ago
Computers are already cheap enough to put in single-use pregnancy tests, what more do you want.
- nineteen999 10mo ago
  I want to play Doom on a pregnancy test! https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ncmegl/doom_running_on_a_pregnancy_test/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ncmegl/doom_running... Just imagine a Beowulf cluster of these.

dmitrygr 10mo ago

"We chose to base our System-on-Module (SOM) " Holy clickbait, batman! The hard parts were done for them! All the fast signals like DDR are on the SoM, designed by real humans who understand EE. To make it all even more of a lie, their design is basically a copy of the reference base-board for the SoM. "Boots on first attempt" well, duh! the SoM is self-contained. It boots all by itself as is... so no wonder that it boots. No EMC results either. Making things work is 10% of the work. Passing certs on unintended emissions and making it stable is the other 150%.

rasz 10mo ago
They designed both SOC and IO boards.
homeless_engi 10mo ago
My reading of this is that they asked the system to redesign the PCB that was used in the i.MX 8M reference system-on-module. It looks like they take a parts list, a PCB shape, and a rough floorplan and pass that to their tool, which spits out a PCB design. https://www.quilter.ai/blog/preparing-an-ai-designed-computer https://www.quilter.ai/blog/preparing-an-ai-designed-compute... I could actually see myself using this tool, as someone who trained as an EE and still likes to tinker with electronics. It would be fun to just assemble a parts list and a rough layout and then receive a working electronic device a few weeks later with minimal work.

aviat 10mo ago

Somebody design a CHRP PowerPC framework motherboard with AI, Please!