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> TBD Lab’s researchers have come to view many Meta executives as interested only in improving the social media business That cannot have been a surprise to an

by Sol- 10mo ago

> TBD Lab’s researchers have come to view many Meta executives as interested only in improving the social media business That cannot have been a surprise to anyone joining.

mullingitover 10mo ago
Meta doesn’t really have a social media business, they have an ad business that’s driven by a massive dumping operation in social media.
- MangoToupe 10mo ago
  What is the difference between the two? What kind of social media business is there other than selling ads?
  - mullingitover 10mo ago
    I know we're so defeated as consumers that we can hardly imagine it, but you could just...charge for the customers' access to social media network. Kinda like every other service that charges money. It would have the side effect of making the whole business less ghoulish and manipulative, since the operators wouldn't be incentivized to maximize eyeball hours. It's impossible to imagine this because government regulation is so completely corrupted that a decades-long anticompetitive dumping scheme is allowed to occur without the slightest pushback.
    - jeromegv 10mo ago
      It's basically Mastodon. The infrastructure is paid by its owner and often relies on donations from their users.
      - zeroonetwothree 10mo ago
        Is Mastodon a business?
        dylan604 10mo ago
        Seems like Mastadon is just the Kitchen Aid of socials. Anyone can have their product(s), but not everyone can use them the same way. Those that use them better stand out from the rest to the point others might just stop using and the product just takes up space
    - zeroonetwothree 10mo ago
      Unlike most business, social media relies on having a high market saturation to provide value. So having a subscription model doesn’t work very well. Of course perhaps it’s a bit different now since most people consume content from a small set of sources, making social media largely the same as traditional media. But then traditional media also has trouble with being supported by subscriptions.
    - christina97 10mo ago
      I hate the ad business model as much as the next person, but this is a pipe dream. Meta had ~$50b in revenue on ads last quarter, and 3.54b “daily active people” whatever that means. That’s in the order of $1/“dap”/week, and there is just absolutely no way any meaningful proportion of their userbase would be paying that much for these apps.
      - layla5alive 10mo ago
        $4/mo isn't crazy in many places, though it is in others. The bigger problem is the monopoly. They would charge $4/mo. Then add ads on top. Then up it to $5/mo. Then..
    - musictubes 10mo ago
      App.net was a wonderful experience with great developer buy in. It is also my understanding that it was operating at break even when it was mothballed. The VC backing it wanted Facebook returns. It was an amazing experience because it didn’t depend on advertisers. I have no idea how it would have fared through Covid and election dramas but it remains my platonic ideal for a social network.
  - AndrewDucker 10mo ago
    Mastodon is not ad funded. Dreamwidth has been about for fifteen years now and is entirely user funded. Scaling is harder. But you can have a niche which works fine.
- zeroonetwothree 10mo ago
  That framing is silly. “NBC doesn’t have a television business, they have an ad business”. “Google doesn’t have a search business, they have an ad business.” “Amazon doesn’t have a retail business, they have an ad business.” It doesn’t provide any value to reframe it this way, unless you think it’s some big secret that ads are the main source of revenue for these businesses.
  - TZubiri 10mo ago
    Restaurants don't have a food business, they have a charging people money through bills business.
    - adventured 10mo ago
      They're in the food micro delivery business. They deliver food from the expo to your table. Short hop logistics specialists.
  - rchaud 10mo ago
    NBC produces their own content, Facebook and Instagram meanwhile are the equivalent of public access TV with ads. There is no unique "brand" that Facebook has, anything posted on there is also posted everywhere else.
    - PaulHoule 10mo ago
      It’s crowded out craiglists and events boards.
  - mullingitover 10mo ago
    I'd contrast this with Flickr. Flickr was the original social network. They have a modest loss leader, a reasonable free tier, but nothing like the permanent money bonfire that the big tech firms operate. They were kinda the first real Web 2.0 social media site, with a social graph, privacy controls, a developer API, tagging, RSS feeds. I feel that they never really got to their full potential exactly because these big VC-backed dumping operations in social media (like Facebook) were able to kill them in the crib. If we're going to accept that social media is a natural monopoly: great. Regulate them strictly, as you should with any monopoly.
nayroclade 10mo ago
Perhaps not, but you can bet that they were told the opposite when Zuckerberg was recruiting them. Indeed, ring fencing the lab does suggest some real attempt to do it.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]

by Sol- 10mo ago

> TBD Lab’s researchers have come to view many Meta executives as interested only in improving the social media business That cannot have been a surprise to anyone joining.

mullingitover 10mo ago

Meta doesn’t really have a social media business, they have an ad business that’s driven by a massive dumping operation in social media.

MangoToupe 10mo ago
What is the difference between the two? What kind of social media business is there other than selling ads?
- mullingitover 10mo ago
  I know we're so defeated as consumers that we can hardly imagine it, but you could just...charge for the customers' access to social media network. Kinda like every other service that charges money. It would have the side effect of making the whole business less ghoulish and manipulative, since the operators wouldn't be incentivized to maximize eyeball hours. It's impossible to imagine this because government regulation is so completely corrupted that a decades-long anticompetitive dumping scheme is allowed to occur without the slightest pushback.
  - jeromegv 10mo ago
    It's basically Mastodon. The infrastructure is paid by its owner and often relies on donations from their users.
    - zeroonetwothree 10mo ago
      Is Mastodon a business?
      - dylan604 10mo ago
        Seems like Mastadon is just the Kitchen Aid of socials. Anyone can have their product(s), but not everyone can use them the same way. Those that use them better stand out from the rest to the point others might just stop using and the product just takes up space
  - zeroonetwothree 10mo ago
    Unlike most business, social media relies on having a high market saturation to provide value. So having a subscription model doesn’t work very well. Of course perhaps it’s a bit different now since most people consume content from a small set of sources, making social media largely the same as traditional media. But then traditional media also has trouble with being supported by subscriptions.
  - christina97 10mo ago
    I hate the ad business model as much as the next person, but this is a pipe dream. Meta had ~$50b in revenue on ads last quarter, and 3.54b “daily active people” whatever that means. That’s in the order of $1/“dap”/week, and there is just absolutely no way any meaningful proportion of their userbase would be paying that much for these apps.
    - layla5alive 10mo ago
      $4/mo isn't crazy in many places, though it is in others. The bigger problem is the monopoly. They would charge $4/mo. Then add ads on top. Then up it to $5/mo. Then..
  - musictubes 10mo ago
    App.net was a wonderful experience with great developer buy in. It is also my understanding that it was operating at break even when it was mothballed. The VC backing it wanted Facebook returns. It was an amazing experience because it didn’t depend on advertisers. I have no idea how it would have fared through Covid and election dramas but it remains my platonic ideal for a social network.
- AndrewDucker 10mo ago
  Mastodon is not ad funded. Dreamwidth has been about for fifteen years now and is entirely user funded. Scaling is harder. But you can have a niche which works fine.
zeroonetwothree 10mo ago
That framing is silly. “NBC doesn’t have a television business, they have an ad business”. “Google doesn’t have a search business, they have an ad business.” “Amazon doesn’t have a retail business, they have an ad business.” It doesn’t provide any value to reframe it this way, unless you think it’s some big secret that ads are the main source of revenue for these businesses.
- TZubiri 10mo ago
  Restaurants don't have a food business, they have a charging people money through bills business.
  - adventured 10mo ago
    They're in the food micro delivery business. They deliver food from the expo to your table. Short hop logistics specialists.
- rchaud 10mo ago
  NBC produces their own content, Facebook and Instagram meanwhile are the equivalent of public access TV with ads. There is no unique "brand" that Facebook has, anything posted on there is also posted everywhere else.
  - PaulHoule 10mo ago
    It’s crowded out craiglists and events boards.
- mullingitover 10mo ago
  I'd contrast this with Flickr. Flickr was the original social network. They have a modest loss leader, a reasonable free tier, but nothing like the permanent money bonfire that the big tech firms operate. They were kinda the first real Web 2.0 social media site, with a social graph, privacy controls, a developer API, tagging, RSS feeds. I feel that they never really got to their full potential exactly because these big VC-backed dumping operations in social media (like Facebook) were able to kill them in the crib. If we're going to accept that social media is a natural monopoly: great. Regulate them strictly, as you should with any monopoly.

nayroclade 10mo ago

Perhaps not, but you can bet that they were told the opposite when Zuckerberg was recruiting them. Indeed, ring fencing the lab does suggest some real attempt to do it.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]