4 ms·

Oh yes as if the Great US of A didn't shoot down passenger jets https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/july-3/u-s-warship-downs-iranian-passenger-jet http

by ulfw 10mo ago

Oh yes as if the Great US of A didn't shoot down passenger jets https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/july-3/u-s-warship-downs-iranian-passenger-jet https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/july-3/u-s-warsh...

derelicta 10mo ago
Nah you don't understand. When Americans shoot down a plane, it's called "Liberation". You see, by doing so they liberate our souls from this fallen World, which is good!
DocTomoe 10mo ago
The major difference being that the US crew got medals for 'meritorious service', including a Navy Commendation Medal and a Legion of Merit. Russia is not quite that ballsy over accidentally butchering civilians.
- dmos62 10mo ago
  > Russia is not quite that ballsy over accidentally butchering civilians. I don't know about accidental, but if anyone thinks Russia is not ballsy about butchering civilians, they need a refresher on Russia's wars during the last few decades. Last few years would be enough too. It's a principle of their military affairs.
  - lm28469 10mo ago
    Switch on the critical thinking part of your brain and go read about american war crimes, the reality is much dirtier than "we're Good and they're Evil". It's not a competition so I'm not going to start ranking armies but they all have their fair share of atrocities.
    - dmos62 10mo ago
      What makes you think I'm not thinking critically? You're the person here who seems to be thinking in terms of competition, as far as I can tell. And, who's we? Not sure if you're being subtly apologetic, so I'll elaborate my point. Russian commanders that led campaigns in Syria got nicknames like Butcher of Aleppo and General Armageddon, for not only using scorched earth tactics, indiscriminate bombing, but actually systemically bombing schools, hospitals, field clinics, bread lines. UN High Commissioner for Human Rights called it "crimes of historic proportions." Aid organizations would actually stonewall the UN, because through UN Russia would find out where the bread lines are and would bomb them. These are not accidents, or freak, isolated occurances: it's doctrine. Look at Mariupol. Or, Ukraine in general.
      - lm28469 10mo ago
        Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Bagram collection point ? The wikileak scandals ? 100k+ civilians dead in Iraq for weapons of mass destruction that never existed. 15%+ of drone strike victims being civilian over the last 20 years These are all accidents too I assume ? Idk what to expect from people who are currently blowing up random boats in international waters and who just declared fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction lmao
        dmos62 10mo ago
        Guy, you're the only one here acting like this is a competition. Do you think what Russia does is somehow more acceptable if you can find other criminals? Yeah, just lean into it. Good luck with that.
  - DocTomoe 10mo ago
    I was specifically talking about accidental shootdowns of civilian airliners. Leave your politics out of this. Unless you have tangible evidence that MH17 was deliberately downed. In which case I am sure people would just love to see that.
    - dmos62 10mo ago
      > I was specifically talking about accidental shootdowns of civilian airliners. Maybe you should think twice before dropping offhand comments related to mass killings. If you want to talk about what exactly I said that's "politics" as opposed to history, we can do that.
lucumo 10mo ago
There's a marked difference between this and the Russian one: the Americans owned their mistake and paid reparations. The Russians denied and keep denying. Mistakes aren't good, but pretending that you didn't make them adds insult to injury.
- cwillu 10mo ago
  The current administration would _absolutely_ deny any such mistake.
  - benchly 10mo ago
    As much as the current administration turns my stomach, previous ones are not absolved from weaseling their way out of catastrophic mistakes, either. It's sort of funny that this thread turned into a USA vs Russia debate when they both play the same games. One of them is just slightly better at pretending like they're playing fair and friendly. My take-away from that is once an organized body, be it a country, corporation or religion, gets very large and holds a lot of power, they will inevitably start doing bad things.
- gridder 10mo ago
  Cermis cough cable car cough
- Matl 10mo ago
  "As part of the settlement, the US did not admit liability for the shootdown." Doesn't sound to me like owning your mistake. Isn't the famous quote: 'I'll never apologize for the United States of America, I don't care what the facts are'. in the context of that after all?

by ulfw 10mo ago

derelicta 10mo ago

Nah you don't understand. When Americans shoot down a plane, it's called "Liberation". You see, by doing so they liberate our souls from this fallen World, which is good!

DocTomoe 10mo ago

The major difference being that the US crew got medals for 'meritorious service', including a Navy Commendation Medal and a Legion of Merit. Russia is not quite that ballsy over accidentally butchering civilians.

dmos62 10mo ago
> Russia is not quite that ballsy over accidentally butchering civilians. I don't know about accidental, but if anyone thinks Russia is not ballsy about butchering civilians, they need a refresher on Russia's wars during the last few decades. Last few years would be enough too. It's a principle of their military affairs.
- lm28469 10mo ago
  Switch on the critical thinking part of your brain and go read about american war crimes, the reality is much dirtier than "we're Good and they're Evil". It's not a competition so I'm not going to start ranking armies but they all have their fair share of atrocities.
  - dmos62 10mo ago
    What makes you think I'm not thinking critically? You're the person here who seems to be thinking in terms of competition, as far as I can tell. And, who's we? Not sure if you're being subtly apologetic, so I'll elaborate my point. Russian commanders that led campaigns in Syria got nicknames like Butcher of Aleppo and General Armageddon, for not only using scorched earth tactics, indiscriminate bombing, but actually systemically bombing schools, hospitals, field clinics, bread lines. UN High Commissioner for Human Rights called it "crimes of historic proportions." Aid organizations would actually stonewall the UN, because through UN Russia would find out where the bread lines are and would bomb them. These are not accidents, or freak, isolated occurances: it's doctrine. Look at Mariupol. Or, Ukraine in general.
    - lm28469 10mo ago
      Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Bagram collection point ? The wikileak scandals ? 100k+ civilians dead in Iraq for weapons of mass destruction that never existed. 15%+ of drone strike victims being civilian over the last 20 years These are all accidents too I assume ? Idk what to expect from people who are currently blowing up random boats in international waters and who just declared fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction lmao
      - dmos62 10mo ago
        Guy, you're the only one here acting like this is a competition. Do you think what Russia does is somehow more acceptable if you can find other criminals? Yeah, just lean into it. Good luck with that.
- DocTomoe 10mo ago
  I was specifically talking about accidental shootdowns of civilian airliners. Leave your politics out of this. Unless you have tangible evidence that MH17 was deliberately downed. In which case I am sure people would just love to see that.
  - dmos62 10mo ago
    > I was specifically talking about accidental shootdowns of civilian airliners. Maybe you should think twice before dropping offhand comments related to mass killings. If you want to talk about what exactly I said that's "politics" as opposed to history, we can do that.

lucumo 10mo ago

There's a marked difference between this and the Russian one: the Americans owned their mistake and paid reparations. The Russians denied and keep denying. Mistakes aren't good, but pretending that you didn't make them adds insult to injury.

cwillu 10mo ago
The current administration would _absolutely_ deny any such mistake.
- benchly 10mo ago
  As much as the current administration turns my stomach, previous ones are not absolved from weaseling their way out of catastrophic mistakes, either. It's sort of funny that this thread turned into a USA vs Russia debate when they both play the same games. One of them is just slightly better at pretending like they're playing fair and friendly. My take-away from that is once an organized body, be it a country, corporation or religion, gets very large and holds a lot of power, they will inevitably start doing bad things.
gridder 10mo ago
Cermis cough cable car cough
Matl 10mo ago
"As part of the settlement, the US did not admit liability for the shootdown." Doesn't sound to me like owning your mistake. Isn't the famous quote: 'I'll never apologize for the United States of America, I don't care what the facts are'. in the context of that after all?