5 ms·

Its crazy he thinks that learning physics is the solution: I believe that in the improvement of the technical ability, thus the productivity, of the people of L

by claaams 10mo ago

Its crazy he thinks that learning physics is the solution: I believe that in the improvement of the technical ability, thus the productivity, of the people of Latin America lies the source of real economic advancement. and not the fact that the US has spent 150+ years destabilizing that part of the world.

dndjfkfkrk 10mo ago
[flagged]
Ozzie_osman 10mo ago
It could definitely be both.
stinkbeetle 10mo ago
Lots of places have been unstable for many years though. China, most of Europe, Russia, India, Korea. Some have shrugged that off others haven't, so it does not seem to have much predictive power.
- xandrius 10mo ago
  I'd say the extent and duration of the disruption between Latin America and the counties you mentioned are quite different. LATAM started from the get go being awfully disrupted from the 1500s and in catastrophic ways. Also, we don't call any of those areas Latin X. It shows how much impact the conquerors had that it even defines how we can the region to this day.
  - stinkbeetle 10mo ago
    > I'd say the extent and duration of the disruption between Latin America and the counties you mentioned are quite different. I don't think it is. Europe was full of wars, civil wars, conquest, occupation, and suppression and destabilization of competing nations for all that time, for example.
    - igogq425 10mo ago
      If you tried to back up your assumption with figures or with specific historical facts, you would see that it is wrong. It's not just about the fact that there was instability somewhere at some point, but about how it is being perpetuated. The countries you list above are very diverse. But what they all have in common, and what distinguishes them from countries in Latin America, is that there is a lot of ocean between them and the US. Admittedly, this also applies to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. But if we examine the question of what distinguishes these countries from the ones you list, it brings us back to the connection that was already pointed out above. I live in Germany and have had access to toothpaste my whole life. People my age in Cuba can still remember very well what it was like to have to do without toothpaste. Now ask your favorite LLM who temporarily prevented toothpaste from being imported into Cuba.
      - boxed 10mo ago
        Blaming Cubas struggles on the US without acknowledging that Cuba, for example, has labor camps for children, is kinda silly imo. It's a brutal dictatorship very similar to Iran. Let's all keep that in mind.
        igogq425 10mo ago
        I can find nothing to support the claim that Cuba allegedly has labor camps for children. As far as I can see, this is an unsubstantiated propaganda claim. It is well known that the US is currently having ICE round up people off the streets and imprison them throughout the country. There is evidence that five-year-old children are being detained separately from their parents. The ability of people to apply double standards is always astonishing. https://www.amnesty.de/sites/default/files/2025-03/030_2025_DE_USA_0.pdf https://www.amnesty.de/sites/default/files/2025-03/030_2025_... And it is simply irrational not to link Cuba's problems with the US embargo.
        boxed 10mo ago
        Weird. You seem pretty bad at searching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Units_to_Aid_Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Units_to_Aid_Producti... > The ages of the inmates ranged from 16 to over 60
  - girvo 10mo ago
    That really downplays the turmoil China has gone through. It’s at least equal.
    - xandrius 10mo ago
      China's external turmoil can be boxed within the 1800s and I don't think it included: 80+% of casualties, forced religious conversion, forced language conversion, wholesale destruction of books and culture, etc.
      - suddenlybananas 10mo ago
        >China's external turmoil can be boxed within the 1800s Yeah except for that time that Japan tried to conquer them while they were in a civil war.
        xandrius 10mo ago
        True but do you really think, all summed up, they had it worse than LATAM?
        suddenlybananas 10mo ago
        Given that the worst of colonialism happened in 16th and 17th centuries and by the 1930s, China was in a worse position than much of Latin America (e.g. Argentina), I would say that they had a harder go of things more recently than Latin America.
      - girvo 10mo ago
        No it really _really_ cannot be. Go read a history book.
        xandrius 10mo ago
        Graceful arguing right there. If you feel like enlightening us how China fared worse than LATAM or you can avoid being all snarky like that.
- 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
  Every place has been unstable at some point. And every place actively destabilized by an empire is definitely unstable. The amount of coups directly planned and executed or supported by the US military/intelligence/lobbying apparatus in south America and the rest of the world is incredible. And then the presidents have the audacity to say that it is the right and responsibility of the locals to govern (as said by biden on Afghanistan exit). It truly has been the most exploitative empire ever. I hope the Chinese do better. We'll find out.
  - sabellito 10mo ago
    You're replying in good faith to someone who ignored the main point of GP (an empire actively disrupting a region) and just said "every place has been unstable" (without even taking century-level timescales into consideration).
    - stinkbeetle 10mo ago
      > an empire actively disrupting a region > century-level timescales Doesn't sound very scientific or predictive. Is also ignorant of history. Ottoman empire lasted many centuries. So did Roman empire. Which crushed and oppressed and destabilized a lot of Europe. China famously had their "century of humiliation" which was "century-level timescale" of "empire actively disrupting a region".
    - 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
      You are right, but I felt morally compelled.
  - actionfromafar 10mo ago
    I see no evidence at all they will do better. Rather the opposite.
    - 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
      At least so far, they have been expanding economically and not militarily, as the US. China could easily start wars with anyone they wanted, and they haven't done so. The US on the other hand, has wars all over the place. I don't know, and I cannot know. I can only hope.
boxed 10mo ago
> and not the fact that the US has spent 150+ years destabilizing that part of the world. Latin America is bigger than Cuba and Chile...
- t-3 10mo ago
  How could you possibly think those are the only LATAM countries the US has interfered with? We have been intimately involved in every government and every election in the Caribbean, Central, and South America for generations. Just this year there has been interference in Honduras, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Colombia, Argentina, etc.
  - boxed 10mo ago
    I mean.. attempted interference for sure. But since Cuba is still communist, I don't think we should overplay the US' might. And given how South Korea and Japan looks today compared to North Korea, I would be hesitant to draw any clear moral lessons. The habit to blame the US/Europe/Jews for everything bad in the world and give a total pass to any other ethnic/political group for their transgressions seems pretty lazy at best, and actively dangerous at worst.
    - t-3 10mo ago
      > The habit to blame the US/Europe/Jews for everything bad in the world and give a total pass to any other ethnic/political group for their transgressions seems pretty lazy at best, and actively dangerous at worst. I'm not sure who you're arguing with in your head, but that kind of strawman should stay there rather than being brought into a public forum. Nobody has made any claims even remotely similar to those.
      - boxed 10mo ago
        You are replying to a thread where I quoted: > and not the fact that the US has spent 150+ years destabilizing that part of the world. That's pretty clearly the same thing.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
carlosjobim 10mo ago
When you blame all your problems on one single external factor, usually a person or a group of foreigners, then you also turn them into all mighty gods. South America is bigger than the US and richer in resources and population. If you don't look internally to fix your problems, then you'll be forever stuck where you are. But it sure feels nice to blame your enemies instead, doesn't it? Let's all pat each other on the back that we're the victims, and only if... and leave it at that.
- Daishiman 10mo ago
  > When you blame all your problems on one single external factor, usually a person or a group of foreigners, then you also turn them into all mighty gods. South America is bigger than the US and richer in resources and population. If you don't look internally to fix your problems, then you'll be forever stuck where you are. Way to show you really, really don't understand the politics of Latin America and who funds the various interests that run the show.

by claaams 10mo ago

dndjfkfkrk 10mo ago

[flagged]

Ozzie_osman 10mo ago

It could definitely be both.

stinkbeetle 10mo ago

Lots of places have been unstable for many years though. China, most of Europe, Russia, India, Korea. Some have shrugged that off others haven't, so it does not seem to have much predictive power.

xandrius 10mo ago
I'd say the extent and duration of the disruption between Latin America and the counties you mentioned are quite different. LATAM started from the get go being awfully disrupted from the 1500s and in catastrophic ways. Also, we don't call any of those areas Latin X. It shows how much impact the conquerors had that it even defines how we can the region to this day.
- stinkbeetle 10mo ago
  > I'd say the extent and duration of the disruption between Latin America and the counties you mentioned are quite different. I don't think it is. Europe was full of wars, civil wars, conquest, occupation, and suppression and destabilization of competing nations for all that time, for example.
  - igogq425 10mo ago
    If you tried to back up your assumption with figures or with specific historical facts, you would see that it is wrong. It's not just about the fact that there was instability somewhere at some point, but about how it is being perpetuated. The countries you list above are very diverse. But what they all have in common, and what distinguishes them from countries in Latin America, is that there is a lot of ocean between them and the US. Admittedly, this also applies to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. But if we examine the question of what distinguishes these countries from the ones you list, it brings us back to the connection that was already pointed out above. I live in Germany and have had access to toothpaste my whole life. People my age in Cuba can still remember very well what it was like to have to do without toothpaste. Now ask your favorite LLM who temporarily prevented toothpaste from being imported into Cuba.
    - boxed 10mo ago
      Blaming Cubas struggles on the US without acknowledging that Cuba, for example, has labor camps for children, is kinda silly imo. It's a brutal dictatorship very similar to Iran. Let's all keep that in mind.
      - igogq425 10mo ago
        I can find nothing to support the claim that Cuba allegedly has labor camps for children. As far as I can see, this is an unsubstantiated propaganda claim. It is well known that the US is currently having ICE round up people off the streets and imprison them throughout the country. There is evidence that five-year-old children are being detained separately from their parents. The ability of people to apply double standards is always astonishing. https://www.amnesty.de/sites/default/files/2025-03/030_2025_DE_USA_0.pdf https://www.amnesty.de/sites/default/files/2025-03/030_2025_... And it is simply irrational not to link Cuba's problems with the US embargo.
        boxed 10mo ago
        Weird. You seem pretty bad at searching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Units_to_Aid_Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Units_to_Aid_Producti... > The ages of the inmates ranged from 16 to over 60
- girvo 10mo ago
  That really downplays the turmoil China has gone through. It’s at least equal.
  - xandrius 10mo ago
    China's external turmoil can be boxed within the 1800s and I don't think it included: 80+% of casualties, forced religious conversion, forced language conversion, wholesale destruction of books and culture, etc.
    - suddenlybananas 10mo ago
      >China's external turmoil can be boxed within the 1800s Yeah except for that time that Japan tried to conquer them while they were in a civil war.
      - xandrius 10mo ago
        True but do you really think, all summed up, they had it worse than LATAM?
        suddenlybananas 10mo ago
        Given that the worst of colonialism happened in 16th and 17th centuries and by the 1930s, China was in a worse position than much of Latin America (e.g. Argentina), I would say that they had a harder go of things more recently than Latin America.
    - girvo 10mo ago
      No it really _really_ cannot be. Go read a history book.
      - xandrius 10mo ago
        Graceful arguing right there. If you feel like enlightening us how China fared worse than LATAM or you can avoid being all snarky like that.
4gotunameagain 10mo ago
Every place has been unstable at some point. And every place actively destabilized by an empire is definitely unstable. The amount of coups directly planned and executed or supported by the US military/intelligence/lobbying apparatus in south America and the rest of the world is incredible. And then the presidents have the audacity to say that it is the right and responsibility of the locals to govern (as said by biden on Afghanistan exit). It truly has been the most exploitative empire ever. I hope the Chinese do better. We'll find out.
- sabellito 10mo ago
  You're replying in good faith to someone who ignored the main point of GP (an empire actively disrupting a region) and just said "every place has been unstable" (without even taking century-level timescales into consideration).
  - stinkbeetle 10mo ago
    > an empire actively disrupting a region > century-level timescales Doesn't sound very scientific or predictive. Is also ignorant of history. Ottoman empire lasted many centuries. So did Roman empire. Which crushed and oppressed and destabilized a lot of Europe. China famously had their "century of humiliation" which was "century-level timescale" of "empire actively disrupting a region".
  - 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
    You are right, but I felt morally compelled.
- actionfromafar 10mo ago
  I see no evidence at all they will do better. Rather the opposite.
  - 4gotunameagain 10mo ago
    At least so far, they have been expanding economically and not militarily, as the US. China could easily start wars with anyone they wanted, and they haven't done so. The US on the other hand, has wars all over the place. I don't know, and I cannot know. I can only hope.

boxed 10mo ago

> and not the fact that the US has spent 150+ years destabilizing that part of the world. Latin America is bigger than Cuba and Chile...

t-3 10mo ago
How could you possibly think those are the only LATAM countries the US has interfered with? We have been intimately involved in every government and every election in the Caribbean, Central, and South America for generations. Just this year there has been interference in Honduras, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Colombia, Argentina, etc.
- boxed 10mo ago
  I mean.. attempted interference for sure. But since Cuba is still communist, I don't think we should overplay the US' might. And given how South Korea and Japan looks today compared to North Korea, I would be hesitant to draw any clear moral lessons. The habit to blame the US/Europe/Jews for everything bad in the world and give a total pass to any other ethnic/political group for their transgressions seems pretty lazy at best, and actively dangerous at worst.
  - t-3 10mo ago
    > The habit to blame the US/Europe/Jews for everything bad in the world and give a total pass to any other ethnic/political group for their transgressions seems pretty lazy at best, and actively dangerous at worst. I'm not sure who you're arguing with in your head, but that kind of strawman should stay there rather than being brought into a public forum. Nobody has made any claims even remotely similar to those.
    - boxed 10mo ago
      You are replying to a thread where I quoted: > and not the fact that the US has spent 150+ years destabilizing that part of the world. That's pretty clearly the same thing.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

carlosjobim 10mo ago

When you blame all your problems on one single external factor, usually a person or a group of foreigners, then you also turn them into all mighty gods. South America is bigger than the US and richer in resources and population. If you don't look internally to fix your problems, then you'll be forever stuck where you are. But it sure feels nice to blame your enemies instead, doesn't it? Let's all pat each other on the back that we're the victims, and only if... and leave it at that.

Daishiman 10mo ago
> When you blame all your problems on one single external factor, usually a person or a group of foreigners, then you also turn them into all mighty gods. South America is bigger than the US and richer in resources and population. If you don't look internally to fix your problems, then you'll be forever stuck where you are. Way to show you really, really don't understand the politics of Latin America and who funds the various interests that run the show.