3 ms·

Mom and daughter find stranger in trunk of Waymo

56 points by lxm 10mo ago

fsckboy 10mo ago
that would be way mo' scary to encounter than those passengers were expecting! there are plenty of incidents of people getting in fights with their Uber driver, cab driver, etc (remember Anjali Ramkissoon the med student who had a little too much to drink?) but it seems like the "driverless automaton" world late at night might present a new set of weird expectations for awhile till practices and safeguards get ironed out. here's the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsX8hNpaAOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsX8hNpaAOE
sethherr 10mo ago
I love that he got in because the trunk was left open, and then couldn’t get out. Failure mode they hadn’t thought of yet
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 10mo ago
  Trunks are supposed to have light-up safety releases for that exact scenario. Something tells me he's lying
  - doubled112 10mo ago
    Some of my vehicles have only had a glow in the dark plastic handle on a wire. It didn't even really glow. I'm not even convinced it wouldn't have broken off if ever pulled on. I don't know if there are newer standards to this, though.
  - toast0 10mo ago
    There'a a video, it's not really a trunk. He's behind the seats of a hatchback/minivan/SUV Afaik, there's no requirement to allow those doors to be opened from the inside, like there is for trunks.
  - AlotOfReading 10mo ago
    There's a fine legal distinction between a trunk and a rear/5th door. Only the former is required to have the latch. The ipace has the latter. I haven't crawled around in the trunk of one looking for the release latch, but there probably isn't a latch given that Jag doesn't even put them into the European models of their sedans.
MangoToupe 10mo ago
Well, yea. Why else would you hire an ai taxi?
ncr100 10mo ago
These and other kinds of, "I didn't think about it" scenarios are not being thought of, today, by Googlers. Obvious but worth considering.
- vjvjvjvjghv 10mo ago
  They must have thought about this and ignored for now. Same for somebody leaving trash behind or let’s say even a bomb. Stuff like this will happen. Not sure how we will deal with this
- AlotOfReading 10mo ago
  Because this scenario is supposed to be taken care of at the vehicle design stage. The rules in the US are that sedans (i.e. anything with an enclosed trunk) are required to have interior emergency trunk release latches as an anti kidnapping measure. Vehicles with a 5th door (i.e. SUVs and hatchbacks) aren't, because the hypothetical kidnapping victim would be visible through the window. The Jaguar I-Pace Waymo is using here has a 5th door, so it's not legally required to have an interior latch. That said, it's impossible to anticipate everything that will happen out in the real world. Most of those stories, especially the fun ones, don't make it to news.
  - galleywest200 10mo ago
    > because the hypothetical kidnapping victim would be visible through the window. My 2018 Subaru Crosstrek came with an attachable screen to cover items in the trunk so they cannot be seen from the window. But apparently you can open that door from the inside if you remove a plastic panel or something like that. If this interior handle is not required for 5th door vehicles it should be.
  - geor9e 10mo ago
    SUVs and hatchbacks have a truck accessible latch to fold the rear seats, so you can get into the front.
- astrange 10mo ago
  They did think of this, because Waymos warn you when you leave luggage in the car. It seems like it didn't work though. I personally caused a traffic jam at Valley Fair recently because I got in the car at the same time the previous people left, so it thought the previous trip had never ended and just sat there forever until I got out again.
fragmede 10mo ago
There is a 1369 Stevenson street problem in San Francisco for Waymo, and Waymo does not handle it well. There's a skate park there. It's ostensibly a two way road, but with parking, it's really not. So you have to drive into the sidewalk to let the other car pass. Until the Waymos can deal with that well, they're going to gridlock London.
- kotaKat 10mo ago
  Fleet Response can “guide” the vehicle onto the sidewalk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elpQPbJXpfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elpQPbJXpfY
donkey_brains 10mo ago
Look, we’re all trying to figure this out!
jmyeet 10mo ago
This is a fundamental problem with AI: humans will treat it differently because it's AI. So you might come up with the perfect AI driving hardware and software that would mimic the best of human drivers but it's not a human and that changes the outcomes. We've seen examples of this where in SF people put traffic cones on the hoods of Waymos to stop them, sometimes for good reasons (eg going through a road closed to construction) and sometimes probably not. I can also imagine human drivers treating self-driving cars on the road very differently essentially through lack of fear. Cut one off? it has no driver who might in a fit of range run you off the road or pull a gun on you. You see a similar sort of thing with apartment buildings in NYC. Many have doormen. Will a doorman prevent someone stealing something or seeking unauthorized entry? Probably not but most people aren't that determined. The presence of a human adds a whole bunch of risk factors that an AI won't. We see it with alarms on houses. People are often way more afraid of dogs than alarms. Or even the potential of someone with a gun. So if this car had a driver, this wouldn't have happened. I'm sure software can be written to deal with this particular situation but you will be fighting a neverending series of human behaviors that will only happen because there's no driver.
tdeck 10mo ago
For those that didn't watch the video, it's a hatchback not a sedan. So the "trunk" is a part of the passenger compartment.
- ycombinatrix 10mo ago
  The video is pretty funny, I recommend watching it.

56 points by lxm 10mo ago

that would be way mo' scary to encounter than those passengers were expecting! there are plenty of incidents of people getting in fights with their Uber driver, cab driver, etc (remember Anjali Ramkissoon the med student who had a little too much to drink?) but it seems like the "driverless automaton" world late at night might present a new set of weird expectations for awhile till practices and safeguards get ironed out. here's the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsX8hNpaAOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsX8hNpaAOE

sethherr 10mo ago

I love that he got in because the trunk was left open, and then couldn’t get out. Failure mode they hadn’t thought of yet

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 10mo ago
Trunks are supposed to have light-up safety releases for that exact scenario. Something tells me he's lying
- doubled112 10mo ago
  Some of my vehicles have only had a glow in the dark plastic handle on a wire. It didn't even really glow. I'm not even convinced it wouldn't have broken off if ever pulled on. I don't know if there are newer standards to this, though.
- toast0 10mo ago
  There'a a video, it's not really a trunk. He's behind the seats of a hatchback/minivan/SUV Afaik, there's no requirement to allow those doors to be opened from the inside, like there is for trunks.
- AlotOfReading 10mo ago
  There's a fine legal distinction between a trunk and a rear/5th door. Only the former is required to have the latch. The ipace has the latter. I haven't crawled around in the trunk of one looking for the release latch, but there probably isn't a latch given that Jag doesn't even put them into the European models of their sedans.

MangoToupe 10mo ago

Well, yea. Why else would you hire an ai taxi?

ncr100 10mo ago

These and other kinds of, "I didn't think about it" scenarios are not being thought of, today, by Googlers. Obvious but worth considering.

vjvjvjvjghv 10mo ago
They must have thought about this and ignored for now. Same for somebody leaving trash behind or let’s say even a bomb. Stuff like this will happen. Not sure how we will deal with this
AlotOfReading 10mo ago
Because this scenario is supposed to be taken care of at the vehicle design stage. The rules in the US are that sedans (i.e. anything with an enclosed trunk) are required to have interior emergency trunk release latches as an anti kidnapping measure. Vehicles with a 5th door (i.e. SUVs and hatchbacks) aren't, because the hypothetical kidnapping victim would be visible through the window. The Jaguar I-Pace Waymo is using here has a 5th door, so it's not legally required to have an interior latch. That said, it's impossible to anticipate everything that will happen out in the real world. Most of those stories, especially the fun ones, don't make it to news.
- galleywest200 10mo ago
  > because the hypothetical kidnapping victim would be visible through the window. My 2018 Subaru Crosstrek came with an attachable screen to cover items in the trunk so they cannot be seen from the window. But apparently you can open that door from the inside if you remove a plastic panel or something like that. If this interior handle is not required for 5th door vehicles it should be.
- geor9e 10mo ago
  SUVs and hatchbacks have a truck accessible latch to fold the rear seats, so you can get into the front.
astrange 10mo ago
They did think of this, because Waymos warn you when you leave luggage in the car. It seems like it didn't work though. I personally caused a traffic jam at Valley Fair recently because I got in the car at the same time the previous people left, so it thought the previous trip had never ended and just sat there forever until I got out again.

fragmede 10mo ago

There is a 1369 Stevenson street problem in San Francisco for Waymo, and Waymo does not handle it well. There's a skate park there. It's ostensibly a two way road, but with parking, it's really not. So you have to drive into the sidewalk to let the other car pass. Until the Waymos can deal with that well, they're going to gridlock London.

kotaKat 10mo ago
Fleet Response can “guide” the vehicle onto the sidewalk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elpQPbJXpfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elpQPbJXpfY

donkey_brains 10mo ago

Look, we’re all trying to figure this out!

jmyeet 10mo ago

This is a fundamental problem with AI: humans will treat it differently because it's AI. So you might come up with the perfect AI driving hardware and software that would mimic the best of human drivers but it's not a human and that changes the outcomes. We've seen examples of this where in SF people put traffic cones on the hoods of Waymos to stop them, sometimes for good reasons (eg going through a road closed to construction) and sometimes probably not. I can also imagine human drivers treating self-driving cars on the road very differently essentially through lack of fear. Cut one off? it has no driver who might in a fit of range run you off the road or pull a gun on you. You see a similar sort of thing with apartment buildings in NYC. Many have doormen. Will a doorman prevent someone stealing something or seeking unauthorized entry? Probably not but most people aren't that determined. The presence of a human adds a whole bunch of risk factors that an AI won't. We see it with alarms on houses. People are often way more afraid of dogs than alarms. Or even the potential of someone with a gun. So if this car had a driver, this wouldn't have happened. I'm sure software can be written to deal with this particular situation but you will be fighting a neverending series of human behaviors that will only happen because there's no driver.

tdeck 10mo ago

For those that didn't watch the video, it's a hatchback not a sedan. So the "trunk" is a part of the passenger compartment.

ycombinatrix 10mo ago
The video is pretty funny, I recommend watching it.