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Ask HN: Got unexpected feedback - where do I go from here?
TL;DR - Had overwhelmingly positive feedback on an idea, not sure how to take it to the next step!
Hey HN,
I usually build small projects that tick along nicely. The feedback I usually get is that they're useful, neat or fun ideas.I recently scoped out, wireframed, sketched and planned a new web & mobile app. It's something that distributed teams & startups might like to use.
It would be of use in my day job and I usually start at that jumping off point for my ideas.
I've spent a bit of time & money working with a designer to go through each screen and mocking it up properly. I figure getting it to that point makes it easier to share. I usually put the ideas into a working file then as my technical skills improve or if I have a bit extra cash I can hire a developer for the bits I can't do myself.
However with this project, the feedback has been like never before!
I've had 5 offers of pre-order (even without me asking "would you buy it") I've had several business cards with people saying "let me know when I can sign up" or "get in touch when your prototype is ready".
I've even had people tell me it's a "fundable idea" - which is something I had never even considered, I've always just bootstrapped my projects.
There would be a very steep learning curve for me to build a prototype for this, probably would take me months. While I'm eager and willing it defeats the object of a quick prototype that gets thrown away.
I'm building a mailing list of those who have registered their interest & I'm still gathering as much feedback as I can.
What kind of numbers are convincing enough to push this forward? What matters most in this situation? Quickness or proof of concept, showing the full potential?
Or do I take it all with a pinch of salt and let it rest in my project folder?
Thanks!
- rincebrain 14y agoCheck your day job's rules on who owns things you work on before anything else happens.
- helen842000 14y agoYes, good point. A lot of people I work with are open about their other side projects, books, businesses etc and the management are supportive of it. I know all of that goodwill can go out of the window easily so I will certainly check.
- huhtenberg 14y agoExplore and investigate this further before committing. Specifically make sure you can deliver exactly what these eager beavers are willing to sign up for, and that you can do it on time and within budget. They might've got the wrong idea, your mockups might've been too optimistic in their feature set, etc. Just make sure to re-validate your idea and confirm you are on the same page with these people. Cheap - fast - good, pick two.
- helen842000 14y agoThanks! I've tried to keep the feature set simple so maybe they are imagining it having things it doesn't. I need to start taking more detailed feedback from people but I don't want to sway them by asking leading questions. Even though it only has a primarly and secondary features, it's certainly still beyond what I've ever built before. I'm considering all angles really. Even if it means selling the idea on, I'd rather it get built properly.
- biggitybones 14y agoI'm assuming the grandparent comment is sarcasm (if it's not, it should be). Leverage this enthusiasm to build the MVP. If you don't know how or it's beyond your capabilities, there's plenty of resources available now to learn how. Get something in the hands of these early adopters and move on from there.
- huhtenberg 14y agoNo, it's not sarcasm.
- canabisjunke 14y agoYou are just teasing my curiosity now...
- canabisjunke 14y agoYou are just teasing my curiosity now...
- steve8918 14y agoStart building it now. That's the only answer. Get off your butt, stop taking in more feedback and other excuses for you to actually do something, and start building the prototype now. There are always reasons for you to wait, gather more data and feedback, etc, but all that will do is stall you and make you lose momentum. Start coding now, and don't worry about what you do or do not know, just do it.
- helen842000 14y agoI wish I had the skills to make a good attempt at it! I'd be on it.:) I'd be taking unpaid leave from my day job and getting it done! That would be awesome. I totally agree I should be doing what I can, even if that is just finding out where I get stuck and then outsourcing the bits where I fall short. I just want to make a good job of it.
- jpdoctor 14y ago> I'd be taking unpaid leave from my day job and getting it done! If you take the risk, there is an x% chance of success with your new venture. (You fill in x.) If you continue to work your day job, there is a 100% chance you will continue to work your day job. I suspect you already know which path you want to take.
- helen842000 14y agoHaha this is so true. Thank you.
- manuelflara 14y agoWell, if you'd be willing to take unpaid leave but you don't have the skills to develop it, why don't you keep working and spend your salary paying someone else to develop it for you?
- helen842000 14y agoI'd need to cost out how much I'd need to spend to get a decent MVP. Sometimes with outsourcing you just swap coding hours for project management hours. I know from experience it takes a lot to keep a distributed team on track.
- apedley 14y agoOutsource the initial prototype, then develop onwards from there if showing signs of success. Also people saying they are willing to buy and actually handing over their credit card details are 2 different things. It looks like you are on to something good, get the MVP asap, and see what the real response is.
- coldpie 14y agoSorry, what is "MVP"?
- followben 14y agoMinimum Viable Product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product
- shawabawa3 14y agoMinimum viable product
- helen842000 14y agoI think I'm going to do some hybrid of this. I'm finding it hard to envisage an MVP. What do I cut back on? The polish/design? Do I just get the fundamental data storage up and running? The simpler the better in my mind! If anyone can recommend any teams that have a record of delivering on MVP projects it would be good to know.
- sprobertson 14y agoI'm actually building a business around building MVPs -- if this is a web or mobile project, shoot me an email and I'd love to help out!
- raheemm 14y agoAll those people who have expressed interest, ask them if they think others might be interested; demo it to them and start building your list. Hire a developer. Watch this video interview of Dane Maxwell on Mixergy for many more ideas -- http://mixergy.com/dane-maxwell-zannee-interview/ http://mixergy.com/dane-maxwell-zannee-interview/
- helen842000 14y agoCheers for the link, I will take a look at that.
- eranation 14y agoFind a co-founder, build an MVP (if technically possible) in a month or two, keep it secret from your employer. keep your day job until you get seed money or you have lot's of savings. Be very nice and buy a lot of nice things to your spouse, as spouses are the biggest partner that can make / break your startup. Especially if you have kids.
- helen842000 14y agoNo kids but my partner has his own side-project that I help with, so I know he'd be really supportive of anything I wanted to start.
- RobAley 14y agoBear in mind that far more people will tell you its a good idea than will buy it (usually) so adjust any projections accordingly. If the time to code the prototype yourself, or the money to outsource the coding, is too much of a risk to take in your personal circumstances, consider finding a technical co-founder to work with to do it. You'll have to give up part of your potential gains, but remember that 50% of something is (usually) better than 100% of nothing. Edit: also remember that the longer you leave it to do something, the more chance someone else will come along with a similar idea and steal your thunder. Though that may be useful for someone else to test your market for you..!
- helen842000 14y agoTotally! I pretty much ignored the first couple of people that voluntarily said they'd like to try it out. I thought "I'll come back to you when it's time to put your money out there" After more and more people say the same thing, it gets hard to ignore. I've never had that before with other projects! I've realised if I do it myself or if I save up & outsource it then it will take the same time. The outsourced one would probably be more effective and I could use my time on building a list. Yet part of me is stuck on at least building a part of it! There is already a big player in this market but they offer a much more complicated solution & miss out on a tool that I think is fundamental. So mine is more aimed at small teams. The competition out there already has tested the market which is good! I calculated that 1% of their sales is like $4mm per year and I don't expect anything near that. It just proves that the market is big. As good as it would be, I don't understand why a technical co-founder would work on my idea. Though having expertise on the team would bring me technically up to speed so I could pull my weight. I don't even think I'd deserve 50% in that scenario as they'd have to be the lead. I wouldn't mind if someone came in with a similar idea, so long as it got built properly. First to build it owns the idea, I don't have anything yet.
- wpietri 14y agoYour last couple of paragraphs really bother me. I see a lot of very smart people talking the same way. Ask yourself if this rings any bells: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_Syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_Syndrome The reason a technical co-founder would work on your idea is that you have a great idea, solid feedback, and the drive to figure out what that idea really means. Plus the skills necessary to deal with all the mushy, human side of product development, producing a clean stream of things to build. The last time I started something, my co-founder did all of that, plus all the fundraising. I got a lot less than 50%, and thought it was a fair deal. As the founder and visionary, you should avoid giving up more than 49% for as long as possible, hopefully ever, because then you give up control. At startup events I see plenty of arrogant idiots who have done no more than you (and often less) looking for co-founders and investment. Your natural humility is an asset when it comes to building products, because it means you will listen to your users and serve them well. But in the realm of entrepreneurship, it will hurt you, because you will reflexively defer to people who act more confident. This is your idea. Nobody will ever love it as much as you. Take it and run. As hard as you can. It may work and it may not, but don't let it be because you didn't believe in yourself.
- startupstella 14y agoFirst of all, congrats! That's awesome :) I would follow startup framework and try to think about what an MVP would be just to test and make sure people would really, actually pay for this instead of just taking their word for it. I had a similar situation with my project (matchist) where freelance developers were really excited about the idea, so my partner and I put our heads down, built it and then realized we spent way too much time building and not enough time getting feedback all along the way and making something much much more basic.
- helen842000 14y agoThanks! Maybe I have skipped a step going straight to the so-called 'final' design. I need to cut it down to its most basic parts and see if I get feedback on that. If I get positive feedback on just the raw functions that would be motivating!
- wpietri 14y agoYes, yes, yes! The number of possible products one can make from an initial idea is very large. Some of those products will be great; some ok; most will fail. (Look, for example, at the ocean of to-do lists in your favorite app store.) Most of the information needed do build a great product resides in the world and in the heads of future customers. Releasing early and often is the best way to test the many hypotheses that are generated while creating a product. It also lets you probe the equally important market space. What are people willing to pay for? How much will they pay? Who are those people? How do you present your product? How can you help them engage their friends? As a developer, I'd rather just go build the thing in my head. But that would be the product that satisfies me, not my future customers.
- blrgeek 14y agoTake a pinch of salt - you've crossed the first barrier - you're looking at something people want. Ask the magic question - 'Will you pay $X for this per month?' That differentiates ppl who find it 'nice' vs people who are desperate for it. This will also give you baseline pricing. Pitch it high and come low. If you think it's worth $100/m, start asking at $250/m. What's an interesting revenue number for you from this? Say it's $10000. Say your price is $50/m [Are your customers ready to pay this much?]. Then you need 200 customers. Is the market big enough to support that? Can you reach this many customers? Meanwhile, do the pipeline research. What do people look for when they want this product? What search terms do they use? Use Adwords Explorer to find out how many people in which region are searching for this - https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer . See how many competitors exist in this space, are they easy to find, are they targeting the right keywords [semrush.com] If everything is positive, create a landing page, start doing some basic SEO or even SEM [if the price is low enough], to get signups, and if you're up to it, pre-orders. Then build the product :) P.S. I've done bits and pieces of this before - not done all the way. If you want to chat abt this, I'm prasanna 79 at google's email service. P.P.S. I'm surprised this is not on the front page. I'd have thought this is clearly the most pertinent of HN material.
- wpietri 14y agoExcellent advice. But I don't like the question, "Will you pay X?" People spend imaginary money differently than real money. Instead, ask for them to write a letter saying that when the product is released, they intend to sign up and pay X. Wikipedia has more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_intent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_intent This does not legally commit them to paying; if you deliver junk, they can pass. But it's serious enough that people behave much more like a real purchase. Or, given that there are good mockups, the initial website could test prices. If they select a plan and click "sign up" you can capture their email address and plan selection.
- helen842000 14y agoThis is useful. I think the next step is putting up a page using the mockups and opening it up to a wider audience and adding it to the list I've already got. If I get to 200, 500 or 1000 names then what? Do I presume that 10% genuinely will sign up, 1% or 0.1%? I've actually already got 3 e-mails of intent based on teams of 6, 9 and 10.
- quesera 14y agoYou need a partner, or funding to hire a team, or both. Without the technical abilities, all you have is an idea that you're unable to execute on. Valuation of ideas can vary, but no one here will argue that execution matters less. It might be possible that your idea is adequately novel that it can wait six months or a year for you to develop the technical skills yourself. Actually, I've found that ideas from people who lack the technical skills to build them often need to wait because the underlying tech/infrastructure/market doesn't exist yet. This is especially true for ideas that generate big enthusiasm. Also, you will want to be in California, if you continue to work at your day job while thinking about this project. Someone please correct me if there are any other US states with clear company-time delineators.
- helen842000 14y agoI do have SOME technical skills and I know I can learn anything I need it's just in what timeframe. I don't think it's that novel, just presented simply which would make using it each day and improvement on the current method. I'm not even in the US, so being in California is even less likely. Though I do plan to spend some time there next year.
- premchai21 14y agoAs it happens, I'm currently in a slow period and looking around for side projects that might lead to money. The other posters have some reasonable general ideas, but if you're willing to provide more detail, I can see whether it's the sort of thing that I'd be able to either help with or find someone else for—right now I can't determine enough from your post to say anything useful that hasn't already been said. You can send me email at my HN username at mailforce.net, if you wish. :-)
- CookWithMe 14y agoBefore you let it rest in your project folder, you can try to pitch your idea at a startup weekend or similar event (basically, hackers, designers and business people spend a weekend trying to "create" a startup, usually building a MVP and doing some customer validation). If your pitch includes "I have a mailing list of X persons who are very interested in this and would love to spend money on it", then it is going to stand out. It is usually possible to build a really rough proof-of-concept in that time, and you can use that to validate your idea, to a certain extent. If you are lucky, you might even find some developers who find this project interesting enough to continue working on it after the weekend. But you'll need some luck for this to work perfectly, so if you are super-serious about it, try the paths outlined by others here.
- helen842000 14y agoI have actually been to Startup Weekends before. They're awesome! They always say you can't work on things you've already started on - so I'm a bit dubious about it sounding like "hey build this for me guys". They are a great way to build stuff no doubt.
- CookWithMe 14y agoI don't know the exact definition of an idea being started on, so yeah... I'd say it's fine. If you had build a prototype, that would have definitely crossed the line. But you don't even have a landing page up, right? I have only been to one (in Berlin) before, and there have been a couple of pitches where people did spend time previously researching. It's fine with me, if you are willing to leave some creative freedom and not force everything pixel-specific onto people.
- CookWithMe 14y agoAnother idea - have you heard of a concierge MVP? If you can pull it off, you can validate that your idea really solves a pain of the customer (right now you have probably validated that your customers have a pain). I'll also recommend the book Running Lean by Ash Maurya, he gives very concrete instructions on what to do and it is a very guide with a lot of practical tips (vs. a high level description).
- helen842000 14y agoHuh, I've not heard of that before. That's really interesting. I'm looking into it now. I need to scale back from current polished design to the root of the offer. I know that in my day job we manage these tasks with whiteboards, flip charts & paper and it's rubbish! Everyone hates it & it takes too long! I might ask those that are interested how they currently manage it and how my solution will improve it. (faster, more fun, distributed responsibility) That would really be valuable information!
- ianpri 14y agoHave you thought of approaching someone else at your work if side projects are allowed? Add me to the list of interested but not quite sure what it is, if you're looking for a hand, let me know - contact details in profile - just finished an MVP for a client and about to start another.
- helen842000 14y agoI've looked within my group of friends but not at work. My colleagues have side projects but they tend to be products & services and not tech based. It'd be good to discuss further if you're interested. I'll drop you a mail.