6 ms·
Pingfs: Stores your data in ICMP ping packets (2020)
- dim13 10mo agoReminded me of GNU Terry Pratchett[1]. [1]: http://www.gnuterrypratchett.com/ http://www.gnuterrypratchett.com/
- lysace 10mo agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9844725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9844725 (2015, great comments)
- _jholland 10mo agoObligatory Tom7 reference: [Harder Drive: Hard drives we didn't want or need](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJSW7Rprio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJSW7Rprio) He stores data in ICMP ping packets, but also Tetris board states, among others. If you are not familiar with Tom7, let this be an introduction to a heavyweight whimsical internet nerd
- EvanAnderson 10mo agoTom7 is a gem. Anything by Tom7 is worth your time. Always.
- leoc 10mo ago38:37 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZLpbhsE72I&t=2317s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZLpbhsE72I&t=2317s in Jay Forrester's "The Design Environment and Innovations of Project Whirlwind" talk ( https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102703082/search/keyword:X6116.2011/ https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/10270308... ): > There was a desperate search for better memory. We seriously considered. at one stage. renting a television microwave link from Boston to Buffalo and back so that one could store something like 3,000 bits in the 3 milliseconds of round-trip transit time. Though I'm not sure why they wouldn't have just used a delay line for that task: that form of memory was already in use in computers, as discussed by Forrester himself from 11:15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZLpbhsE72I&t=675s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZLpbhsE72I&t=675s .
- cbm-vic-20 10mo ago"Tetris is an inventory-management survival-horror game."
- ozozozd 10mo agoCame to comments only to mention/upvote this and add engagement so everyone knows about the GOAT that Tom7 is.
- cakemedia 10mo agoA software version of a mercury delay line! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay-line_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay-line_memory
- EvanAnderson 10mo agoYep. ICMP delay line memory.
- cbdevidal 10mo agoOkay, but could someone ELI5 how it works? Because I am heckin’ confused
- adzm 10mo agoImagine a continuously-moving loop that stores bits. When you want a certain bit you just wait for it to loop back to the position you want.
- cbdevidal 10mo agoGood, but how does a ping hold data? AFAIK each ping is a single round trip and not a continuous loop. And where in the packet is the data stored?
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- lesuorac 10mo agoIn everybody else's router as it travels back and forth. Imagine mailing somebody a letter with data; once they receive the letter they send it back. The information is stored within the postal system.
- robjs 10mo agoICMP packets pretty much always carry some data (even though it's not _strictly_ required). This data is what is padded when the user asks for a ping with a specific packet size (e.g., when debugging MTU issues). In some applications, using an ICMP payload and getting a quote of the IP header + 8-bytes of the original packet back in ICMP error messages is part of the application. For example, traceroute utilises the fact that it gets part of the payload back in a ICMP TTL exceeded message to identify _which_ traceroute request was being responded to.
- xvilka 10mo agoThe concept is widely covered in the amazing book Silence on the Wire[1] by Michal Zalewski. I wish he or someone else would write modern equivalent (or at least a new, updated edition) of the book. [1] https://nostarch.com/silence.htm https://nostarch.com/silence.htm
- cinntaile 10mo agoHe's on HN, maybe he reads your post.
- xvilka 10mo agoI believe he found new solace - woodwork[1][2]. Given the state of security and things in general in the IT, I definitely understand. Especially with the AI slop influx. His blog is quite interesting to read though, highly recommend. [1] https://lcamtuf.substack.com/p/how-do-wood-finishes-hold-up https://lcamtuf.substack.com/p/how-do-wood-finishes-hold-up [2] https://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/woodworking/ https://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/woodworking/
- HenrikB 10mo agoIt's humbling to know that the RAM of computers like ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64 would fit in a single IP packet. It took minutes to load that "paket" from cassette tape.
- zamadatix 10mo agoWith IPv6 there is even an extension to go to 4 GB packets (extremely rare to actually be implemented though), which you can send in less than 100 ms with an 800G NIC!
- hermitdev 10mo ago> to 4 GB packets Heh. Anyone remember the ping of death[0]? A lot (most?) of computers on the early internet didn't properly handle large packets, _especially_ from ICMP pings. Once upon a time, you could send a single ping w/ a packet size of 65536 and crash the remote. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_of_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_of_death
- jupitr 10mo agomakes me wonder if a sufficiently large number of connected nodes can represent bits via their online/offline status, and their network graph representing "memory"
- some_furry 10mo agoEvery time someone does something like this, I recall this post from Xe: https://xeiaso.net/blog/anything-message-queue/ https://xeiaso.net/blog/anything-message-queue/
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- diydsp 10mo agoRouter designers hate him... Srsly... the ram inside a core router is some of the most precious resources around... this is an ooold idea.. people were doing at least as far back as the 2000s.. i showed them how our router (Avici TSR) worked and said "please don't use the super fancy fabric temporary store for this." This kills the router designer.