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Well, your opinion is literally illegal. You're legally (and technically) prohibited from re-programming GPS modules, GSM modules, and probably many stuff in c
by tomp 10mo ago
Well, your opinion is literally illegal.
You're legally (and technically) prohibited from re-programming GPS modules, GSM modules, and probably many stuff in cars as well.
(Actually, maybe contractually when it comes to GPS modules.)
- loloquwowndueo 10mo agoHe is saying that it should not be illegal to do so.
- simonask 10mo agoAnd they are saying that it already is, naming a few examples of things that really need to be illegal to reprogram. GPS et al would be non-functional if everybody could make a jammer. (That’s not to say that app stores fall even remotely in that category.)
- codedokode 10mo agoHow does reprogramming GPS receiver turn it into a jammer? To make a jammer, you better buy a cheap SDR from Aliexpress.
- Fabricio20 10mo agoHow does being able to reprogram a GPS device make it into a jammer any more efficiently than grabbing three pieces of coal and running a few amps thru it? Or hell just buying an SDR on aliexpress! The only reason it's "illegal" is because they were thinking people would use it to make missiles easily - but that's already the case even with non-reprogrammable gps. And in big 2025 you can also just use drones with bombs attached to it.
- fluoridation 10mo agoI don't really understand your point in restating this. Someone who says "X should be true" isn't going to be convinced that X should be false by reminding them that X is in fact false. >GPS et al would be non-functional if everybody could make a jammer. Then it should be illegal to make a GPS jammer. Making it illegal to reprogram a GPS receiver in any way is unnecessarily broad.
- everforward 10mo agoGPS is a bad example, but there are things that pose a physical threat to others that we maybe shouldn't tinker with. Like I think some modern cars are fly-by-wire, so you could stick the accelerator open and disable the breaks and steering. If it's also push-to-start, that's probably not physically connected to the ignition either. It would be difficult to catch in an inspection if you could reprogram the OEM parts. I don't care about closed-course cars, though. Do whatever you want to your track/drag car, but cars on the highway should probably have stock software for functional parts.
- DaSHacka 10mo agoWhy does it matter if it's running stock software or not so long as it's still operational? Oftentimes even the stock software can cause those problems you've mentioned, and has happened quite a few times in the past
- AnthonyMouse 10mo ago> Like I think some modern cars are fly-by-wire, so you could stick the accelerator open and disable the breaks and steering. Essentially all passenger cars use physical/hydraulic connections for the steering and brakes. The computer can activate the brakes, not disable the pedal from working. But also, this argument is absurd. What if someone could reprogram your computer to make the brakes not work? They could also cut the brake lines or run you off the road. Which is why attempted murder is illegal and you don't need "programming a computer" to be illegal. > It would be difficult to catch in an inspection if you could reprogram the OEM parts. People already do this. There are also schmucks who make things like straight-through "catalytic converters" that internally bypass the catalyst for the main exhaust flow to improve performance while putting a mini-catalyst right in front of the oxygen sensor to fool the computer. You'd basically have to remove the catalytic converter and inspect the inside of it to catch them, or test the car on a dyno using an external exhaust probe, which are the same things that would catch someone reprogramming the computer. In practice those people often don't get caught and the better solution is to go after the people selling those things rather than the people buying them anyway.
- 10mo ago
- fennecbutt 10mo agoIn the same way that anybody can use a gun for violence, right? They're becoming self aware!
- codedokode 10mo agoTo be fair, millions people walking with guns around are much scarier than a guy which can jam GPS with a receiver. We have GPS jammed on a regular basis (including around airports when planes land/take off) and nothing bad happens.
- viraptor 10mo agoEveryone can make a jammer already. (It's illegal to use one, but you're able to) Hardware receivers cannot be reprogrammed as transmitters. We already have well known areas with constant GPS manipulation. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/gps-jamming https://www.flightradar24.com/data/gps-jamming
- zb3 10mo agoSo here's my opinion: unless re-programming something is illegal, it should be illegal for the manufacturer to prevent the consumer from doing that.
- Nevermark 10mo ago> Well, your opinion is literally illegal. In support of this irrefutable statement: • > "Whatever is, is right." — Alexander Pope • > "If you want to get along, go along." — Sam Rayburn • > "Reform? Reform! Aren't things bad enough already?" — Lord Eldon • > "We've always done it this way." — Grace Hopper (referred to it as a dangerous phrase) • > "Well, when you put it that way..." — [List of millions redacted to protect the compliant] Rebuttal: • > "“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw • > "Yeah, well, ya know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man." — The Dude (In someone's pharmaceutically elevated dream, addressing the Supreme Court.)
- throwuxiytayq 10mo agoIANAL but I don’t think OP is breaking any laws by having an opinion on this subject. [At least in the US] pretty much all opinions are completely legal.
- fortyseven 10mo agoUnless you're stopped at the border and a cop decides to take a stroll through your social media on your phone. Wish THAT was a joke.
- fennecbutt 10mo agoWhy is it illegal? Pretty sure it's not. It is however, illegal to broadcast into spectrums you're not allowed to. But if I modify the uc in a GPS module to calculate 1+1=3 then AFAIK that's totally allowed.
- uselesswords 10mo agoTechnical point here but opinions are not illegal to have. Besides that your point is missing the fact that you are dealing with outside services that provide a contract for their usage (GPS, GSM). You should be free to program your own devices but if you use an external service, then yes they can specify how you use their service. Those are contractual obligations. Cars on the road have clear safety risks and those are legal obligations. None of those obligations should govern what you do with your device until your device interacts with other people and/or services.
- tomp 10mo ago> if you use an external service, then yes they can specify how you use their service. Those are contractual obligations. Sounds like something Apple would say.
- manjalyc 10mo agoThe difference is apple doesn’t let you modify your device to use other services. Their contractual obligation goes beyond the service itself. That’s why EPIC won this case.
- mikewarot 10mo agoGPS doesn't come with a contract. It's a purely receive only system. It wouldn't be fit for purpose (letting soldiers know precisely where they are on the globe) if it required transmission of any type from the user. That would turn it into a beacon an adversary could leverage.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- swat535 10mo ago> Well, your opinion is literally illegal. That's the whole point.. parent is arguing that it should not be illegal.
- OrangeMusic 10mo agoIs it really illegal to reprogram a GPS unit? Why? Isn't it essentially a radio?