3 ms·

I agree, with maybe minor exceptions. It's probably reasonable that radio hardware can't trivially be reprogrammed to exceed regulated power limits. Or for stuf

by IshKebab 11mo ago

I agree, with maybe minor exceptions. It's probably reasonable that radio hardware can't trivially be reprogrammed to exceed regulated power limits. Or for stuff that is extremely safety critical like pacemakers (though I think for those things it should be mandatory to share source code).

ryandrake 11mo ago
> It's probably reasonable that radio hardware can't trivially be reprogrammed to exceed regulated power limits. No more reasonable than limiting cars to 75mph (which some people, admittedly, are probably in favor of).
- IshKebab 11mo ago
  I think an 80mph limit would be reasonable (10 over the limit in the UK). I wouldn't be in favour of a hard 75mph because current speed limits are set by social consensus on the basis that they aren't strictly enforced. The police are extremely unlikely to stop you for doing 76mph in a 70, so I don't think your car should.
fooker 11mo ago
I don't think this should be a matter of regulation, as you can create a device that broadcasts powerful signals at almost any frequency, with high school physics and garage engineering. It should very much be enforced though, similar to speed limits on the road. It's much easier to zero in on weird electromagnetic waves than it is to catch people speeding on roads.
- lillecarl 11mo ago
  By requiring high-school garage engineering to DOS your local RF services you prevent essentially everyone from doing it. I'm all in to allow free access to reading waves, but broadcasting is regulated for good reason. Today I was in the subway when my Bluetooth headset started lagging, it's happened once before on a highway close to a specific car, this is DOS. The radio spectrum is limited and it must be regulated and follow regulations, enforcement is really hard, it's a lot easier and reasonable to dump it on the manufacturers by locking the juice behind closed firmware.
  - 0x457 11mo ago
    > By requiring high-school garage engineering to DOS your local RF services you prevent essentially everyone from doing it. At most, it prevents people from accidentally doing it. Anyone who wants to do can figure it out on their own.
  - shagie 11mo ago
    From the post "Yes, the FCC might ban your operating system" - https://prplfoundation.org/yes-the-fcc-might-ban-your-operating-system/ https://prplfoundation.org/yes-the-fcc-might-ban-your-operat... 2.1033 Application for grant of certification. Paragraph 4(i) which reads: For devices including modular transmitters which are software defined radios and use software to control the radio or other parameters subject to the Commission’s rules, the description must include details of the equipment’s capabilities for software modification and upgradeability, including all frequency bands, power levels, modulation types, or other modes of operation for which the device is designed to operate, whether or not the device will be initially marketed with all modes enabled. The description must state which parties will be authorized to make software changes (e.g., the grantee, wireless service providers, other authorized parties) and the software controls that are provided to prevent unauthorized parties from enabling different modes of operation. Manufacturers must describe the methods used in the device to secure the software in their application for equipment authorization and must include a high level operational description or flow diagram of the software that controls the radio frequency operating parameters. The applicant must provide an attestation that only permissible modes of operation may be selected by a user. 2.1042 Certified modular transmitters. Paragraph (8)(e) which reads: Manufacturers of any radio including certified modular transmitters which includes a software defined radio must take steps to ensure that only software that has been approved with a particular radio can be loaded into that radio. The software must not allow the installers or end-user to operate the transmitter with operating frequencies, output power, modulation types or other radio frequency parameters outside those that were approved. Manufacturers may use means including, but not limited to the use of a private network that allows only authenticated users to download software, electronic signatures in software or coding in hardware that is decoded by software to verify that new software can be legally loaded into a device to meet these requirements.
laggyluke 11mo ago
> It's probably reasonable that radio hardware can't trivially be reprogrammed to exceed regulated power limits. https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/blob/develop/src/mesh/RadioInterface.cpp https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/blob/develop/src/mesh... The true limits are imposed by the hardware, not the software, as it should be!

ryandrake 11mo ago

> It's probably reasonable that radio hardware can't trivially be reprogrammed to exceed regulated power limits. No more reasonable than limiting cars to 75mph (which some people, admittedly, are probably in favor of).

IshKebab 11mo ago
I think an 80mph limit would be reasonable (10 over the limit in the UK). I wouldn't be in favour of a hard 75mph because current speed limits are set by social consensus on the basis that they aren't strictly enforced. The police are extremely unlikely to stop you for doing 76mph in a 70, so I don't think your car should.

fooker 11mo ago

I don't think this should be a matter of regulation, as you can create a device that broadcasts powerful signals at almost any frequency, with high school physics and garage engineering. It should very much be enforced though, similar to speed limits on the road. It's much easier to zero in on weird electromagnetic waves than it is to catch people speeding on roads.

lillecarl 11mo ago
By requiring high-school garage engineering to DOS your local RF services you prevent essentially everyone from doing it. I'm all in to allow free access to reading waves, but broadcasting is regulated for good reason. Today I was in the subway when my Bluetooth headset started lagging, it's happened once before on a highway close to a specific car, this is DOS. The radio spectrum is limited and it must be regulated and follow regulations, enforcement is really hard, it's a lot easier and reasonable to dump it on the manufacturers by locking the juice behind closed firmware.
- 0x457 11mo ago
  > By requiring high-school garage engineering to DOS your local RF services you prevent essentially everyone from doing it. At most, it prevents people from accidentally doing it. Anyone who wants to do can figure it out on their own.
- shagie 11mo ago
  From the post "Yes, the FCC might ban your operating system" - https://prplfoundation.org/yes-the-fcc-might-ban-your-operating-system/ https://prplfoundation.org/yes-the-fcc-might-ban-your-operat... 2.1033 Application for grant of certification. Paragraph 4(i) which reads: For devices including modular transmitters which are software defined radios and use software to control the radio or other parameters subject to the Commission’s rules, the description must include details of the equipment’s capabilities for software modification and upgradeability, including all frequency bands, power levels, modulation types, or other modes of operation for which the device is designed to operate, whether or not the device will be initially marketed with all modes enabled. The description must state which parties will be authorized to make software changes (e.g., the grantee, wireless service providers, other authorized parties) and the software controls that are provided to prevent unauthorized parties from enabling different modes of operation. Manufacturers must describe the methods used in the device to secure the software in their application for equipment authorization and must include a high level operational description or flow diagram of the software that controls the radio frequency operating parameters. The applicant must provide an attestation that only permissible modes of operation may be selected by a user. 2.1042 Certified modular transmitters. Paragraph (8)(e) which reads: Manufacturers of any radio including certified modular transmitters which includes a software defined radio must take steps to ensure that only software that has been approved with a particular radio can be loaded into that radio. The software must not allow the installers or end-user to operate the transmitter with operating frequencies, output power, modulation types or other radio frequency parameters outside those that were approved. Manufacturers may use means including, but not limited to the use of a private network that allows only authenticated users to download software, electronic signatures in software or coding in hardware that is decoded by software to verify that new software can be legally loaded into a device to meet these requirements.

laggyluke 11mo ago

> It's probably reasonable that radio hardware can't trivially be reprogrammed to exceed regulated power limits. https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/blob/develop/src/mesh/RadioInterface.cpp https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/blob/develop/src/mesh... The true limits are imposed by the hardware, not the software, as it should be!