6 ms·

Berlin Approves New Expansion of Police Surveillance Powers

158 points by robtherobber 10mo ago

LightBug1 10mo ago
Spit balling now ... I just feel like the years have rolled on by so quickly now, that we've aged out of all of the lessons we had to learn before. And now we're going to have to learn them all over again.
- znort_ 10mo ago
  we ought to stop these decadent crooks from plunging us into fascism and war just to rescue their waning privilege (again), but somehow i don't think we will. so, yeah, lessons to be relearned ahead.
- mothballed 10mo ago
  Classical liberalism is a rare blip of an exception in the history of civilization. As Milton Friedman says, and I paraphrase, it's quite remarkable it happened in the first place, but there's no real guarantee those conditions might ever arise again and no real expectation that it's realistic to think it will be recreated again in any particular desired timespan.
  - mmooss 10mo ago
    So is most technology, widespread literacy, health, freedom, etc. In fact, everything since we were nomadic hunter-gatherers is a blip - should we go back to that? The argument makes no sense; what force is compelling us to go back to hunting and gathering? It's absurd to raise this argument for inevitability, rather than do something about it - which has worked overwhelmingly for generations.
    - mothballed 10mo ago
      I'm not arguing you shouldn't do something about it. I'm a bit of a dreamer myself; I've basically carved out a life in a super rural area with almost no government -- but at the same time I like to be aware of the thoughts of great philosophers like Friedman and the history of this sort of liberalism and use it to my advantage. Knowing what I've stated has allowed me to deal with a world where I can't expect things to get better, even if I hope they will. My personal take is you can use Friedman's thoughts to your advantage. Be prepared that everything will get much worse. And then maybe you can organize your life to minimize your interaction with the state in case your efforts don't help.
      - mmooss 10mo ago
        > dreamer The idea that these are dreams is just part of the anti-democratic, anti-freedom rhetoric. You might not mean it that way, but look how it's been absorbed widely. These are concrete realities that have swept across every corner of the world, and brought, by orders of magnitude, the greatest expansions of human freedom and prosperity ever. All in reality, not a dream.
        mothballed 10mo ago
        This is what I come to HN for. To be called a peddler of anti-freedom rhetoric for dreaming of freedom, as a reply to single word quote. Because, you know, you're not allowed to dream if those dreams have at some point been "reality."
        mmooss 10mo ago
        They are reality, not at some point but right now and for generations (depending on where you live). I'm not talking about you, but the rhetoric, the ideas. But another part of the rhetoric is to shift the conversation to being a victim, and away from the merits of the ideas so one doesn't have to talk about them. Heck, looking back, I even took trouble to say it wasn't about you. If you want to insist you embrace those idea, that's your problem. Or you could be an independent thinker who examines ideas on their merits. That would be the core of HN.
        mothballed 10mo ago
        >I'm not talking about you, but the rhetoric, the ideas. But another part of the rhetoric is to shift the conversation to being a victim, and away from the merits of the ideas so one doesn't have to talk about them. Heck, looking back, I even took trouble to say it wasn't about you. A survey of the 'rhetoric' (which you've somehow shifted to even though it's quite obvious you are personifying the rhetoric to reflect the person) of Friedman's life and the people espousing his 'rhetoric' finds your accusation to be blatantly and utterly false. Nothing about Friedman's 'rhetoric' was focused around shifting away from the merits of the ideas. I recommend watching "Free to Choose" series where you will learn almost none of the 'rhetoric' is focused around 'victimhood' and almost entirely around how to deal with the circumstances he's recognized. This 'victim' peddling of your 'rhetoric' assessment is purely aimed at assassinating Friedman's assessment with a thought terminating dismissal as appeal to victimhood, not grounded in truth nor is it even aimed at understanding what was said.
    - bondarchuk 10mo ago
      Is-ought distinction. Mothballed and Milton are describing how things are, not how they should be, which latter seems to be your interpretation.
      - mmooss 10mo ago
        No, that's part of their nonsense. I'm describing how things are. Liberalism, including the Enlightenment is, and has been overwhelmingly successful in adoption (every corner of the globe, though not 100% of the globe), and success. It really does rule the world. Mothballed and Milton are describing how they think things ought to be, or inevitably will be (I believe for many, the former is their goal, disguised as the latter). But that's just theory with no basis (as I pointed out earlier). The idea that the latter is 'real' is laughable. Look at the world. The people who built a liberal world order had to contend with argument like this - there was little precedent. They had to invent much of it in the face of skepticism (like every innovator). But it's absurd, now that it's built, institutionalized, and successful and status quo - now that you were born in it, fed on it, and live in it and breath it - now that all you need to do is pick up the tools that your predecessors did the hard work of creating, for you to argue that it's somehow not real. Just pick up the tools and march forward. I mean, wow, that is some effective propaganda. It's like saying at noon that there's no star in the sky, like telling a fish in the ocean that there's no water.
        mothballed 10mo ago
        It's laughable to think Milton Friedman wasn't picking up the tools to try and bring at least the form of freedom he envisioned. Most likely, he's done more than you've (or I) ever done or ever will do. I could bring out the fact I literally fought in a civil war to help retain liberalism for some populations, I've been shot at for trying to bring liberalism, of course no one will believe that and I have nothing to prove, so I'll just let whoever wants to believe that is a lie believe that. A lot of the people I met, well, they were just killed by ISIS, maybe even some of their family trapped behind lines of various jihadist militias and things get even worse. It is because I've "picked up the tools" and seen how so often things turn out, that I came to find that Milton's words were so accurate. It is a beautiful thing when freedom works out. More often than not, it doesn't. Sure, you should still try. And then be prepared for the possibility things might get even worse. Milton's assessment was that things have been getting progressively less liberal in the USA since at least the latter portion of his life. I believe especially so since 9/11. The populace keeps voting harder and things just get worse. We recently passed a budget bill, which magically banned hemp (something ~no one wanted) and basically gave gobs of money to politicians for having their cell phones monitored in ways the common populace constantly has their monitored with no recourse. As time goes on, I see the government is getting more leverage and the people less and less, I hope it changes and I hope people try to change it but I will be prepared for the possibility it does not do much good. I remain prepared for the possibility the initial circumstances allowing classical liberalism to come about, no longer exist (one of my theories is that in the 19th and 18th century violent force was at its most decentralized point in history-- the ~modern firearm was the pinnacle of warfare and there was not a huge difference in effectiveness between a peasent and a government conscript which is a huge difference between prior times of it taking years to train say an archer or modern era where government has fighter jets and ballistic missiles -- this meant the general populace had as much or more leverage than the government) , and that the technological and social landscape are not particularly amenable to its recreation. There are a few pockets of remarkable freedom in the world -- good on them, I hope they keep it and I hope we see more of it.
- Muromec 10mo ago
  There is an alternative explaination that you will not like. Maybe we were removing the proverbal fences all the time and are about to learn the hard way to put them back.
  - bondarchuk 10mo ago
    That explanation would only hold water if we were dealing right now with all kinds of problems stemming from lack of authoritarianism and too much freedom. I'm not really seeing it but maybe you have something in mind.
    - Muromec 10mo ago
      At least some people believe we do and vote for it. I'm not among those people and I don't hold this position, but somehow it gets more and more support lately.
      - bondarchuk 10mo ago
        "about to learn the hard way to put them back" would seem to imply you expect some real consequences from the lack of "fences".
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
lysace 10mo ago
Fighting extremist terrorism requires tough measures. This one is a bit extra though: > If the software cannot be deployed remotely, the law authorizes officers to secretly enter a person’s home to gain access. Clear Das Leben der Anderen vibes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others) However: As usual, the devil is in the details. How much suspicion is required, what's the process, etc. (I assume that a judge needs to sign off.)
- danielbln 10mo ago
  And as always, plenty of oil runs down that slope to make it slippery. First it's terrorists, then heavy crime, then petty crime, then small things, then it's whoever the powers that be don't deem deserving of freedom. We've been down that road on Germany, but history rhymes, as the saying goes.
  - lysace 10mo ago
    The slippery slope argument always seemed... slippery, to me.
    - alephnerd 10mo ago
      Ironically, the same people who complain about "slippery slopes" become the same people who bemoan the fact that American, Chinese, Russian, and even Vietnamese [0][1] intelligence operate with de facto impunity in Germany and the EU. Europeans can no longer afford to be the idealists that they were in the 2000s. Every country is runnng influence ops across Europe to a degree that hasn't been seen since the Cold War. That said, as an American, it's fine for me if Germans and Europeans remain naive. An allied Europe is good, but a naive but controlled Europe is equally as good. For every Atlanticist, we have people who can push our interests in an illiberal manner like Dominik Andrzejczuk. [0] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/berlin-kidnapping-accusation-hangs-over-rise-of-vietnam-enforcer https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/berlin-ki... [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-18/vietnam-police-probe-berlin-based-editor-over-anti-state-acts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-18/vietnam-p...
black_13 10mo ago
[dead]
perihelions 10mo ago
The explanation is deceptively unclear, IMO. What's being authorized is court-ordered searches of a type that were previously prohibited, even for courts to authorize, by strict privacy laws. The US has always had the power to conduct these searches [0]; the "inviolability of the home" human dignity concept doesn't exist in the US. (I'll defer to German people to explain this concept). As explained in heise.de[1] (in German) about a parallel law being enacted in the state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, > "For the online search, the deputies now also grant the law enforcement the right to secretly enter and search apartments with judicial permission." [0] e.g. https://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138916011/home-visits-and-other-secrets-of-the-fbi https://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138916011/home-visits-and-oth... ("Home Visits And Other 'Secrets Of The FBI'") [1] https://www.heise.de/news/Mecklenburg-Vorpommern-Durchsuchungsrechte-fuer-Polizei-deutlich-ausgeweitet-4681989.html https://www.heise.de/news/Mecklenburg-Vorpommern-Durchsuchun...
- mmooss 10mo ago
  > the "inviolability of the home" human dignity concept doesn't exist in the US. Maybe not under that term, but for example, almost the only place an American's 4th Amendment protections against search and seizure apply is in their home. Law enforcement can search their garbage at the curb, monitor their [edit: public] movements via camera and license plate monitoring, etc., look them up online, all without warrants [*]. They can't do that in someone's home. [*] I'm pretty sure no warrant is required to search curbside trash or do most online research.
  - hrimfaxi 10mo ago
    The trash search thing varies by state at least.
  - jandrewrogers 10mo ago
    The boundaries of your "home" varies by State. For example, in some States the interior of your car is part of your home even when not at home, which occasionally has entertaining implications.
astro1138 10mo ago
After decades of a liberal and left senate, Berliners reelected CDU who bankrupted Berlin 25 years ago.
- woodpanel 10mo ago
  hehehe, this made me chuckle. 25 years of hard-core socialists running the show, and all of a sudden its the conservatives that ruined Berlin. that is rich. It's even funnier when considering the Länderfinanzausgleich (Equalization payments between federal states): Basically within those 25 years Berlin, under those financially savvy and responsible leftists, amassed 95 B € in payments from all other German Federal States. [0] [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A4nderfinanzausgleich https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A4nderfinanzausgleich
- mickelsen 10mo ago
  The Berlin airport fiasco was absolutely on the left-wing government.
ndr 10mo ago
Yet another step towards Turnkey Totalitarianism https://creativetimereports.org/2013/06/25/surveillance-and-the-construction-of-a-terror-state/ https://creativetimereports.org/2013/06/25/surveillance-and-...
BizarroLand 10mo ago
I wonder why so many governments have such high anxiety right now. They're all acting like the sky is falling. Don't they know what happens to most of the chickens in Chicken Little?
- mothballed 10mo ago
  Can't imagine why they'd be anxious. Life is a negotiation. What the populace brings to the table is they will vote harder next time or maybe a little bit of protests, but mostly just do what they're told and carry on with their jobs and pray things get better. What the government bring is fighter jets and guns and career civil servants who have had a lifetime of training how to fuck you, the might and wishes of the rich and powerful, and lording power by taxing you then redistributing it back as benefits that then feel depended upon. If you enter the negotiating table with a sociopath and expect them not to steamroll you when you openly show you have far worse cards, then you're not thinking clearly. Insanity is thinking you can keep bringing the same things to the negotiation table and getting different results.
  - stronglikedan 10mo ago
    > Can't imagine why they'd be anxious. Me neither, especially since the adults are back in charge in the US.
- barrenko 10mo ago
  European governments anxious yet refuse switch to wartime production...
- jerf 10mo ago
  In a nutshell, the sovereign debt crisis. If you don't realize there's a sovereign debt crisis (ongoing across years), or even more accurately, a wide variety of sovereign debt crises, or even more accurately, a wide variety of debt crises of both sovereign and private entities, well, your governments and some of the more government-adjacent private entities have bent a lot of resources into make sure that's the case and convincing that it's just peachy when they borrow money, if not outright a boon, without regard to how much they borrow or how much they've already borrowed. They may have convinced you that this is true, but they know better. Whatever happens and however it resolves, there aren't a lot of options where they retain as much power as they have now for very long. (Even if the top people maintain control they're going to be cutting loose a lot of lower level elites because they'll have to because they won't be able to maintain their upkeep.) The wheel turns and we're in that phase where they're still in power, but have begun to feel their decline. Human psychology fears and feels loss much more keenly than gain and they both fear and feel a lot of loss of power underneath the veneer they maintain.
SoftTalker 10mo ago
What is it about German culture that makes authoritarianism so popular?
- __turbobrew__ 10mo ago
  Germans love rules and hate those who don’t (source: scolded by several Germans while travelling there)
  - qwertox 10mo ago
    Why don't you share what you did to get scolded by several Germans and I will explain to you why.
    - __turbobrew__ 10mo ago
      1. While waiting to be seated at a bistro, I grabbed a menu off a table to see what they had for food. Waiter who was ignoring me saw that and instantly scolded me in front of the entire restaurant saying that is their job. 2. An alpine train was coming by and I was doing the fist pump in the air to get them to honk the horn. A random stranger said that my actions were unwelcome and that trains are serious business. 3. When on bikes I did a skid stop to make my wife laugh, a random stranger said I shouldn’t do that. 4. At the airport, I had to pour out water before going through the security checkpoint. There was no bin to pour out water so I just poured it out in the garbage. A random stranger got quite upset and said the water does not go in the garbage. Not to mention all of the very unfriendly interactions I had with locals. Honestly will probably never go back, people are so much more friendly and laid back elsewhere which is more my style.
      - ffsm8 10mo ago
        As a German myself, that list is surprising. The only one I could imagine is 4., because the bins generally aren't watertight, so you're essentially spilling water on the floor which will make a mess for everyone. And there are always places to pour the water it's just usually at the entrance of the terminal ... Which is obviously dumb, cuz nobody is going to go back to them after they've already queued to get in. But 1-3? You must've really gotten unlucky... 1 I could only imagine in expensive restaurants, 2. I am seriously surprised by, because while the person manning the train would almost always ignore you, so would everyone else - no matter what kind of gesture you do. And 3... While I cannot fathom doing that on purpose myself, I'm extremely surprised anyone would bother interacting with anyone about that? Definitely doesn't reflect my experience living here for roughly 40 yrs
submeta 10mo ago
Totalitarism slowly advancing in Europe. Recently I read an article about leftist groups and orgs being debanked. One of them is Huseyin Dogru, a Turkish/German journalist. German government acknowledges it, but can‘t see any problem with it as they hold the opinion that private banks can do whatever they want. You are labelled „Putin versteher“ (someone who sides with Putin) or criticise Israel (in which case you are labelled antisemitic), and once you are labelled that way, you have fallen out of grace. And can be targeted or beaten on a demonstration brutally by police forces, or, debanked.
- submeta 10mo ago
  The moment you mention Israel on this platform, you are systematically downvoted. Not only on this platform. From corp media to social networks. From BBC who dares not use the word Genocide. To HN, where you are downvoted to oblivion the moment you say Israel is a genocidal racist apartheid regime.
Raz2 10mo ago
For those who don't live in Berlin. It's drowning in crime. I totally support it. I'd be against it if AfD was in power. But I agree to sacrifice some privacy for security. The current situation is unacceptable.

158 points by robtherobber 10mo ago

Spit balling now ... I just feel like the years have rolled on by so quickly now, that we've aged out of all of the lessons we had to learn before. And now we're going to have to learn them all over again.

znort_ 10mo ago
we ought to stop these decadent crooks from plunging us into fascism and war just to rescue their waning privilege (again), but somehow i don't think we will. so, yeah, lessons to be relearned ahead.
mothballed 10mo ago
Classical liberalism is a rare blip of an exception in the history of civilization. As Milton Friedman says, and I paraphrase, it's quite remarkable it happened in the first place, but there's no real guarantee those conditions might ever arise again and no real expectation that it's realistic to think it will be recreated again in any particular desired timespan.
- mmooss 10mo ago
  So is most technology, widespread literacy, health, freedom, etc. In fact, everything since we were nomadic hunter-gatherers is a blip - should we go back to that? The argument makes no sense; what force is compelling us to go back to hunting and gathering? It's absurd to raise this argument for inevitability, rather than do something about it - which has worked overwhelmingly for generations.
  - mothballed 10mo ago
    I'm not arguing you shouldn't do something about it. I'm a bit of a dreamer myself; I've basically carved out a life in a super rural area with almost no government -- but at the same time I like to be aware of the thoughts of great philosophers like Friedman and the history of this sort of liberalism and use it to my advantage. Knowing what I've stated has allowed me to deal with a world where I can't expect things to get better, even if I hope they will. My personal take is you can use Friedman's thoughts to your advantage. Be prepared that everything will get much worse. And then maybe you can organize your life to minimize your interaction with the state in case your efforts don't help.
    - mmooss 10mo ago
      > dreamer The idea that these are dreams is just part of the anti-democratic, anti-freedom rhetoric. You might not mean it that way, but look how it's been absorbed widely. These are concrete realities that have swept across every corner of the world, and brought, by orders of magnitude, the greatest expansions of human freedom and prosperity ever. All in reality, not a dream.
      - mothballed 10mo ago
        This is what I come to HN for. To be called a peddler of anti-freedom rhetoric for dreaming of freedom, as a reply to single word quote. Because, you know, you're not allowed to dream if those dreams have at some point been "reality."
        mmooss 10mo ago
        They are reality, not at some point but right now and for generations (depending on where you live). I'm not talking about you, but the rhetoric, the ideas. But another part of the rhetoric is to shift the conversation to being a victim, and away from the merits of the ideas so one doesn't have to talk about them. Heck, looking back, I even took trouble to say it wasn't about you. If you want to insist you embrace those idea, that's your problem. Or you could be an independent thinker who examines ideas on their merits. That would be the core of HN.
        mothballed 10mo ago
        >I'm not talking about you, but the rhetoric, the ideas. But another part of the rhetoric is to shift the conversation to being a victim, and away from the merits of the ideas so one doesn't have to talk about them. Heck, looking back, I even took trouble to say it wasn't about you. A survey of the 'rhetoric' (which you've somehow shifted to even though it's quite obvious you are personifying the rhetoric to reflect the person) of Friedman's life and the people espousing his 'rhetoric' finds your accusation to be blatantly and utterly false. Nothing about Friedman's 'rhetoric' was focused around shifting away from the merits of the ideas. I recommend watching "Free to Choose" series where you will learn almost none of the 'rhetoric' is focused around 'victimhood' and almost entirely around how to deal with the circumstances he's recognized. This 'victim' peddling of your 'rhetoric' assessment is purely aimed at assassinating Friedman's assessment with a thought terminating dismissal as appeal to victimhood, not grounded in truth nor is it even aimed at understanding what was said.
  - bondarchuk 10mo ago
    Is-ought distinction. Mothballed and Milton are describing how things are, not how they should be, which latter seems to be your interpretation.
    - mmooss 10mo ago
      No, that's part of their nonsense. I'm describing how things are. Liberalism, including the Enlightenment is, and has been overwhelmingly successful in adoption (every corner of the globe, though not 100% of the globe), and success. It really does rule the world. Mothballed and Milton are describing how they think things ought to be, or inevitably will be (I believe for many, the former is their goal, disguised as the latter). But that's just theory with no basis (as I pointed out earlier). The idea that the latter is 'real' is laughable. Look at the world. The people who built a liberal world order had to contend with argument like this - there was little precedent. They had to invent much of it in the face of skepticism (like every innovator). But it's absurd, now that it's built, institutionalized, and successful and status quo - now that you were born in it, fed on it, and live in it and breath it - now that all you need to do is pick up the tools that your predecessors did the hard work of creating, for you to argue that it's somehow not real. Just pick up the tools and march forward. I mean, wow, that is some effective propaganda. It's like saying at noon that there's no star in the sky, like telling a fish in the ocean that there's no water.
      - mothballed 10mo ago
        It's laughable to think Milton Friedman wasn't picking up the tools to try and bring at least the form of freedom he envisioned. Most likely, he's done more than you've (or I) ever done or ever will do. I could bring out the fact I literally fought in a civil war to help retain liberalism for some populations, I've been shot at for trying to bring liberalism, of course no one will believe that and I have nothing to prove, so I'll just let whoever wants to believe that is a lie believe that. A lot of the people I met, well, they were just killed by ISIS, maybe even some of their family trapped behind lines of various jihadist militias and things get even worse. It is because I've "picked up the tools" and seen how so often things turn out, that I came to find that Milton's words were so accurate. It is a beautiful thing when freedom works out. More often than not, it doesn't. Sure, you should still try. And then be prepared for the possibility things might get even worse. Milton's assessment was that things have been getting progressively less liberal in the USA since at least the latter portion of his life. I believe especially so since 9/11. The populace keeps voting harder and things just get worse. We recently passed a budget bill, which magically banned hemp (something ~no one wanted) and basically gave gobs of money to politicians for having their cell phones monitored in ways the common populace constantly has their monitored with no recourse. As time goes on, I see the government is getting more leverage and the people less and less, I hope it changes and I hope people try to change it but I will be prepared for the possibility it does not do much good. I remain prepared for the possibility the initial circumstances allowing classical liberalism to come about, no longer exist (one of my theories is that in the 19th and 18th century violent force was at its most decentralized point in history-- the ~modern firearm was the pinnacle of warfare and there was not a huge difference in effectiveness between a peasent and a government conscript which is a huge difference between prior times of it taking years to train say an archer or modern era where government has fighter jets and ballistic missiles -- this meant the general populace had as much or more leverage than the government) , and that the technological and social landscape are not particularly amenable to its recreation. There are a few pockets of remarkable freedom in the world -- good on them, I hope they keep it and I hope we see more of it.
Muromec 10mo ago
There is an alternative explaination that you will not like. Maybe we were removing the proverbal fences all the time and are about to learn the hard way to put them back.
- bondarchuk 10mo ago
  That explanation would only hold water if we were dealing right now with all kinds of problems stemming from lack of authoritarianism and too much freedom. I'm not really seeing it but maybe you have something in mind.
  - Muromec 10mo ago
    At least some people believe we do and vote for it. I'm not among those people and I don't hold this position, but somehow it gets more and more support lately.
    - bondarchuk 10mo ago
      "about to learn the hard way to put them back" would seem to imply you expect some real consequences from the lack of "fences".

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

lysace 10mo ago

Fighting extremist terrorism requires tough measures. This one is a bit extra though: > If the software cannot be deployed remotely, the law authorizes officers to secretly enter a person’s home to gain access. Clear Das Leben der Anderen vibes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others) However: As usual, the devil is in the details. How much suspicion is required, what's the process, etc. (I assume that a judge needs to sign off.)

danielbln 10mo ago
And as always, plenty of oil runs down that slope to make it slippery. First it's terrorists, then heavy crime, then petty crime, then small things, then it's whoever the powers that be don't deem deserving of freedom. We've been down that road on Germany, but history rhymes, as the saying goes.
- lysace 10mo ago
  The slippery slope argument always seemed... slippery, to me.
  - alephnerd 10mo ago
    Ironically, the same people who complain about "slippery slopes" become the same people who bemoan the fact that American, Chinese, Russian, and even Vietnamese [0][1] intelligence operate with de facto impunity in Germany and the EU. Europeans can no longer afford to be the idealists that they were in the 2000s. Every country is runnng influence ops across Europe to a degree that hasn't been seen since the Cold War. That said, as an American, it's fine for me if Germans and Europeans remain naive. An allied Europe is good, but a naive but controlled Europe is equally as good. For every Atlanticist, we have people who can push our interests in an illiberal manner like Dominik Andrzejczuk. [0] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/berlin-kidnapping-accusation-hangs-over-rise-of-vietnam-enforcer https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/berlin-ki... [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-18/vietnam-police-probe-berlin-based-editor-over-anti-state-acts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-18/vietnam-p...

black_13 10mo ago

[dead]

perihelions 10mo ago

The explanation is deceptively unclear, IMO. What's being authorized is court-ordered searches of a type that were previously prohibited, even for courts to authorize, by strict privacy laws. The US has always had the power to conduct these searches [0]; the "inviolability of the home" human dignity concept doesn't exist in the US. (I'll defer to German people to explain this concept). As explained in heise.de[1] (in German) about a parallel law being enacted in the state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, > "For the online search, the deputies now also grant the law enforcement the right to secretly enter and search apartments with judicial permission." [0] e.g. https://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138916011/home-visits-and-other-secrets-of-the-fbi https://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138916011/home-visits-and-oth... ("Home Visits And Other 'Secrets Of The FBI'") [1] https://www.heise.de/news/Mecklenburg-Vorpommern-Durchsuchungsrechte-fuer-Polizei-deutlich-ausgeweitet-4681989.html https://www.heise.de/news/Mecklenburg-Vorpommern-Durchsuchun...

mmooss 10mo ago
> the "inviolability of the home" human dignity concept doesn't exist in the US. Maybe not under that term, but for example, almost the only place an American's 4th Amendment protections against search and seizure apply is in their home. Law enforcement can search their garbage at the curb, monitor their [edit: public] movements via camera and license plate monitoring, etc., look them up online, all without warrants [*]. They can't do that in someone's home. [*] I'm pretty sure no warrant is required to search curbside trash or do most online research.
- hrimfaxi 10mo ago
  The trash search thing varies by state at least.
- jandrewrogers 10mo ago
  The boundaries of your "home" varies by State. For example, in some States the interior of your car is part of your home even when not at home, which occasionally has entertaining implications.

astro1138 10mo ago

After decades of a liberal and left senate, Berliners reelected CDU who bankrupted Berlin 25 years ago.

woodpanel 10mo ago
hehehe, this made me chuckle. 25 years of hard-core socialists running the show, and all of a sudden its the conservatives that ruined Berlin. that is rich. It's even funnier when considering the Länderfinanzausgleich (Equalization payments between federal states): Basically within those 25 years Berlin, under those financially savvy and responsible leftists, amassed 95 B € in payments from all other German Federal States. [0] [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A4nderfinanzausgleich https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A4nderfinanzausgleich
mickelsen 10mo ago
The Berlin airport fiasco was absolutely on the left-wing government.

ndr 10mo ago

Yet another step towards Turnkey Totalitarianism https://creativetimereports.org/2013/06/25/surveillance-and-the-construction-of-a-terror-state/ https://creativetimereports.org/2013/06/25/surveillance-and-...

BizarroLand 10mo ago

I wonder why so many governments have such high anxiety right now. They're all acting like the sky is falling. Don't they know what happens to most of the chickens in Chicken Little?

mothballed 10mo ago
Can't imagine why they'd be anxious. Life is a negotiation. What the populace brings to the table is they will vote harder next time or maybe a little bit of protests, but mostly just do what they're told and carry on with their jobs and pray things get better. What the government bring is fighter jets and guns and career civil servants who have had a lifetime of training how to fuck you, the might and wishes of the rich and powerful, and lording power by taxing you then redistributing it back as benefits that then feel depended upon. If you enter the negotiating table with a sociopath and expect them not to steamroll you when you openly show you have far worse cards, then you're not thinking clearly. Insanity is thinking you can keep bringing the same things to the negotiation table and getting different results.
- stronglikedan 10mo ago
  > Can't imagine why they'd be anxious. Me neither, especially since the adults are back in charge in the US.
barrenko 10mo ago
European governments anxious yet refuse switch to wartime production...
jerf 10mo ago
In a nutshell, the sovereign debt crisis. If you don't realize there's a sovereign debt crisis (ongoing across years), or even more accurately, a wide variety of sovereign debt crises, or even more accurately, a wide variety of debt crises of both sovereign and private entities, well, your governments and some of the more government-adjacent private entities have bent a lot of resources into make sure that's the case and convincing that it's just peachy when they borrow money, if not outright a boon, without regard to how much they borrow or how much they've already borrowed. They may have convinced you that this is true, but they know better. Whatever happens and however it resolves, there aren't a lot of options where they retain as much power as they have now for very long. (Even if the top people maintain control they're going to be cutting loose a lot of lower level elites because they'll have to because they won't be able to maintain their upkeep.) The wheel turns and we're in that phase where they're still in power, but have begun to feel their decline. Human psychology fears and feels loss much more keenly than gain and they both fear and feel a lot of loss of power underneath the veneer they maintain.

SoftTalker 10mo ago

What is it about German culture that makes authoritarianism so popular?

__turbobrew__ 10mo ago
Germans love rules and hate those who don’t (source: scolded by several Germans while travelling there)
- qwertox 10mo ago
  Why don't you share what you did to get scolded by several Germans and I will explain to you why.
  - __turbobrew__ 10mo ago
    1. While waiting to be seated at a bistro, I grabbed a menu off a table to see what they had for food. Waiter who was ignoring me saw that and instantly scolded me in front of the entire restaurant saying that is their job. 2. An alpine train was coming by and I was doing the fist pump in the air to get them to honk the horn. A random stranger said that my actions were unwelcome and that trains are serious business. 3. When on bikes I did a skid stop to make my wife laugh, a random stranger said I shouldn’t do that. 4. At the airport, I had to pour out water before going through the security checkpoint. There was no bin to pour out water so I just poured it out in the garbage. A random stranger got quite upset and said the water does not go in the garbage. Not to mention all of the very unfriendly interactions I had with locals. Honestly will probably never go back, people are so much more friendly and laid back elsewhere which is more my style.
    - ffsm8 10mo ago
      As a German myself, that list is surprising. The only one I could imagine is 4., because the bins generally aren't watertight, so you're essentially spilling water on the floor which will make a mess for everyone. And there are always places to pour the water it's just usually at the entrance of the terminal ... Which is obviously dumb, cuz nobody is going to go back to them after they've already queued to get in. But 1-3? You must've really gotten unlucky... 1 I could only imagine in expensive restaurants, 2. I am seriously surprised by, because while the person manning the train would almost always ignore you, so would everyone else - no matter what kind of gesture you do. And 3... While I cannot fathom doing that on purpose myself, I'm extremely surprised anyone would bother interacting with anyone about that? Definitely doesn't reflect my experience living here for roughly 40 yrs

submeta 10mo ago

Totalitarism slowly advancing in Europe. Recently I read an article about leftist groups and orgs being debanked. One of them is Huseyin Dogru, a Turkish/German journalist. German government acknowledges it, but can‘t see any problem with it as they hold the opinion that private banks can do whatever they want. You are labelled „Putin versteher“ (someone who sides with Putin) or criticise Israel (in which case you are labelled antisemitic), and once you are labelled that way, you have fallen out of grace. And can be targeted or beaten on a demonstration brutally by police forces, or, debanked.

submeta 10mo ago
The moment you mention Israel on this platform, you are systematically downvoted. Not only on this platform. From corp media to social networks. From BBC who dares not use the word Genocide. To HN, where you are downvoted to oblivion the moment you say Israel is a genocidal racist apartheid regime.

Raz2 10mo ago

For those who don't live in Berlin. It's drowning in crime. I totally support it. I'd be against it if AfD was in power. But I agree to sacrifice some privacy for security. The current situation is unacceptable.