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> If the goal is reduced CO2 ... let's start on tearing down bullshit AI datacenters. Oh no, a billion Nvidia cards are envronmentally friendly, you say, bett

> If the goal is reduced CO2 ... let's start on tearing down bullshit AI datacenters. Oh no, a billion Nvidia cards are envronmentally friendly, you say, better to lazer-focus on the cow farts?

ragequittah 10mo ago
The cow farts, the important forests being torn down far cattle, the important forests being torn down for soy beans that feed the cattle, the inhumane conditions in which the cattle are raised. The problem you dismissed is indeed far larger than the one you're worried about.
- mos87 10mo ago
  >the important forests being torn down far cattle It's a bit extreme to refer to that "climate" summit "guests" as cattle, but I won't deny it gave me a chuckle. >the inhumane conditions in which the cattle are raised Gosh, that's sad. One way to go about it is to vote with your hard-earned and only buy meat from the Ethically Raised in the Swiss Alps Cows that look quite happy on the photos then.
  - kleiba 10mo ago
    No need to be snarky, a lot of people are already implementing such changes in the way the buy and consume food.
    - mos87 10mo ago
      Amsterdam or Portland? Anyway, you're welcome to munch grass (we're not made for that), eat bugs, and wash em down with beetroot smoothies. While billions of Asians would farm and devour everything they can get their teeth on.
  - asterix_pano 10mo ago
    Did you know they put nose rings with spikes on the calfs so they don't drink their mother's milk? https://as1.ftcdn.net/jpg/03/06/17/72/1000_F_306177230_izPAvBc5ZZ1dxV4jyHYCkO0uwMArmTfL.jpg https://as1.ftcdn.net/jpg/03/06/17/72/1000_F_306177230_izPAv...
    - clort 10mo ago
      what is the context for this photo please? (that is not a calf btw?) It certainly does not look very nice, are you relating this to the "Ethically Raised in the Swiss Alps Cows" in the comment you replied to? In truth, they just take the calves away from the mothers after a short while, ship them out to the abbatoir. There is no benefit to them being in the same enclosure with a spiky nose ring, it seems that this must have a different purpose than the one you mentioned.
    - swiftcoder 10mo ago
      I suggest reading/listening a little bit outside of the PETA propaganda bubble. For example, here's a good short discussion on the topic with a cattle farmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4cHn6NX4wQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4cHn6NX4wQ
      - YeGoblynQueenne 10mo ago
        Just for some context, is the guy on the left with the white shirt a vegan who however supports ethical farming practices or did I get totally the wrong impression?
        swiftcoder 10mo ago
        I believe he was a vegan for a long time, but has since started eating some ethically-farmed meat
  - ben_w 10mo ago
    > Gosh, that's sad. One way to go about it is to vote with your hard-earned and only buy meat from the Ethically Raised in the Swiss Alps Cows that look quite happy on the photos then. In a discussion about genetically modified fungus as a meat substitute?
- otabdeveloper4 10mo ago
  Meat is useful. "AI" datacenters are 100% harm in every possible way. Let's start with that.
  - ben_w 10mo ago
    Meat was useful, back when we had not yet selectively bred fantastically better than natural crops of all kinds, back when we had not yet invented synthetic fertiliser that's now the ultimate source of 70-80% of the nitrogen in the body of someone in an industrialised nation, back when hunger was a bigger problem than obesity. Now? Now meat's mostly a problem, not a good thing. Even if you ignore every ethical argument, regardless of if your concerns are your own health or the environment, meat's not good. Data centres… well, I think this is a bubble, I also want it to be a bubble for various reasons, but the AI running on them today is in fact already useful. Even if current AI wasn't at all useful (despite it having about half to one quarter of the market size as meat already), it does so at a cost orders of magnitude lower environmental harm than meat. Convincing half of the population to have "meat-free Mondays" (so, reducing consumption by 1/14th) would do more than switching off all the AI DCs, given the estimates from Greenpeace for AI https://www.greenpeace.de/publikationen/20250514-greenpeace-studie-umweltauswirkungen-ki.pdf https://www.greenpeace.de/publikationen/20250514-greenpeace-... and Our World In Data's estimates for livestock and manure https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector
    - otabdeveloper4 10mo ago
      > it does so at a cost orders of magnitude lower environmental harm than meat Thanks for the quip. Does this come from a Big AI talking points memo? Judging by the ridiculous and absolutely non-sequitur "one quarter of the market size" phrase, yeah, I think so.
      - ben_w 10mo ago
        > Does this come from a Big AI talking points memo? It comes from the evidence I linked you to. Which includes, to repeat, *Greenpeace*. Also to repeat: I think this is a bubble, I also want it to be a bubble for various reasons. As in, I do not buy into Big AI's talking points about how this is "it", and we're on a path to radical AI-based abundance. Not yet. Plus I think it would be bad even if we were on that track at this point, so I want it to be "not it". > ridiculous The global meat market is around 1.5 trillion USD, give or take. That is literally the value of meat, which like all things in a free economic sector can be measured in money. You may also notice from me saying that AI is 0.5-0.25 of that, that I'm not using "Market Cap" of AI in this comparison. Market cap != market size. This is about what revenue AI and meat gets per year.
curtisf 10mo ago
Livestock emits between 10% to 20% of global greenhouse gases (in carbon equivalent/100y-GWP) [1] In contrast, all data centers (not just AI) currently use less than 1.5% of all electricity, making up less than 0.3% of global emissions [2]. Although recent increases in data center electricity usage is lamentable, even in the short term future, much of this can and more importantly _will_ be low-carbon energy, and the ratio should continue to improve with time. A 1% reduction in livestock emissions is therefore about the same as a 50% reduction in data center emissions. [1]: https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/food-agriculture-environment/livestock-dont-contribute-14-5-of-global-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/food-agriculture-environm... [2]: https://www.carbon-direct.com/insights/understanding-the-carbon-footprint-of-ai-and-how-to-reduce-it https://www.carbon-direct.com/insights/understanding-the-car...
- mos87 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Dylan16807 10mo ago
    Are you making up a guy to be mad at?
    - mos87 10mo ago
      It's only game, why you heff to be mad?
- otabdeveloper4 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - literalAardvark 10mo ago
    The numbers are what the numbers are, not what you want them to be. Minimizing cow farts is simply a better focus.

> If the goal is reduced CO2 ... let's start on tearing down bullshit AI datacenters. Oh no, a billion Nvidia cards are envronmentally friendly, you say, better to lazer-focus on the cow farts?

ragequittah 10mo ago

The cow farts, the important forests being torn down far cattle, the important forests being torn down for soy beans that feed the cattle, the inhumane conditions in which the cattle are raised. The problem you dismissed is indeed far larger than the one you're worried about.

mos87 10mo ago
>the important forests being torn down far cattle It's a bit extreme to refer to that "climate" summit "guests" as cattle, but I won't deny it gave me a chuckle. >the inhumane conditions in which the cattle are raised Gosh, that's sad. One way to go about it is to vote with your hard-earned and only buy meat from the Ethically Raised in the Swiss Alps Cows that look quite happy on the photos then.
- kleiba 10mo ago
  No need to be snarky, a lot of people are already implementing such changes in the way the buy and consume food.
  - mos87 10mo ago
    Amsterdam or Portland? Anyway, you're welcome to munch grass (we're not made for that), eat bugs, and wash em down with beetroot smoothies. While billions of Asians would farm and devour everything they can get their teeth on.
- asterix_pano 10mo ago
  Did you know they put nose rings with spikes on the calfs so they don't drink their mother's milk? https://as1.ftcdn.net/jpg/03/06/17/72/1000_F_306177230_izPAvBc5ZZ1dxV4jyHYCkO0uwMArmTfL.jpg https://as1.ftcdn.net/jpg/03/06/17/72/1000_F_306177230_izPAv...
  - clort 10mo ago
    what is the context for this photo please? (that is not a calf btw?) It certainly does not look very nice, are you relating this to the "Ethically Raised in the Swiss Alps Cows" in the comment you replied to? In truth, they just take the calves away from the mothers after a short while, ship them out to the abbatoir. There is no benefit to them being in the same enclosure with a spiky nose ring, it seems that this must have a different purpose than the one you mentioned.
  - swiftcoder 10mo ago
    I suggest reading/listening a little bit outside of the PETA propaganda bubble. For example, here's a good short discussion on the topic with a cattle farmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4cHn6NX4wQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4cHn6NX4wQ
    - YeGoblynQueenne 10mo ago
      Just for some context, is the guy on the left with the white shirt a vegan who however supports ethical farming practices or did I get totally the wrong impression?
      - swiftcoder 10mo ago
        I believe he was a vegan for a long time, but has since started eating some ethically-farmed meat
- ben_w 10mo ago
  > Gosh, that's sad. One way to go about it is to vote with your hard-earned and only buy meat from the Ethically Raised in the Swiss Alps Cows that look quite happy on the photos then. In a discussion about genetically modified fungus as a meat substitute?
otabdeveloper4 10mo ago
Meat is useful. "AI" datacenters are 100% harm in every possible way. Let's start with that.
- ben_w 10mo ago
  Meat was useful, back when we had not yet selectively bred fantastically better than natural crops of all kinds, back when we had not yet invented synthetic fertiliser that's now the ultimate source of 70-80% of the nitrogen in the body of someone in an industrialised nation, back when hunger was a bigger problem than obesity. Now? Now meat's mostly a problem, not a good thing. Even if you ignore every ethical argument, regardless of if your concerns are your own health or the environment, meat's not good. Data centres… well, I think this is a bubble, I also want it to be a bubble for various reasons, but the AI running on them today is in fact already useful. Even if current AI wasn't at all useful (despite it having about half to one quarter of the market size as meat already), it does so at a cost orders of magnitude lower environmental harm than meat. Convincing half of the population to have "meat-free Mondays" (so, reducing consumption by 1/14th) would do more than switching off all the AI DCs, given the estimates from Greenpeace for AI https://www.greenpeace.de/publikationen/20250514-greenpeace-studie-umweltauswirkungen-ki.pdf https://www.greenpeace.de/publikationen/20250514-greenpeace-... and Our World In Data's estimates for livestock and manure https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector
  - otabdeveloper4 10mo ago
    > it does so at a cost orders of magnitude lower environmental harm than meat Thanks for the quip. Does this come from a Big AI talking points memo? Judging by the ridiculous and absolutely non-sequitur "one quarter of the market size" phrase, yeah, I think so.
    - ben_w 10mo ago
      > Does this come from a Big AI talking points memo? It comes from the evidence I linked you to. Which includes, to repeat, *Greenpeace*. Also to repeat: I think this is a bubble, I also want it to be a bubble for various reasons. As in, I do not buy into Big AI's talking points about how this is "it", and we're on a path to radical AI-based abundance. Not yet. Plus I think it would be bad even if we were on that track at this point, so I want it to be "not it". > ridiculous The global meat market is around 1.5 trillion USD, give or take. That is literally the value of meat, which like all things in a free economic sector can be measured in money. You may also notice from me saying that AI is 0.5-0.25 of that, that I'm not using "Market Cap" of AI in this comparison. Market cap != market size. This is about what revenue AI and meat gets per year.

curtisf 10mo ago

Livestock emits between 10% to 20% of global greenhouse gases (in carbon equivalent/100y-GWP) [1] In contrast, all data centers (not just AI) currently use less than 1.5% of all electricity, making up less than 0.3% of global emissions [2]. Although recent increases in data center electricity usage is lamentable, even in the short term future, much of this can and more importantly _will_ be low-carbon energy, and the ratio should continue to improve with time. A 1% reduction in livestock emissions is therefore about the same as a 50% reduction in data center emissions. [1]: https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/food-agriculture-environment/livestock-dont-contribute-14-5-of-global-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/food-agriculture-environm... [2]: https://www.carbon-direct.com/insights/understanding-the-carbon-footprint-of-ai-and-how-to-reduce-it https://www.carbon-direct.com/insights/understanding-the-car...

mos87 10mo ago
[flagged]
- Dylan16807 10mo ago
  Are you making up a guy to be mad at?
  - mos87 10mo ago
    It's only game, why you heff to be mad?
otabdeveloper4 10mo ago
[flagged]
- literalAardvark 10mo ago
  The numbers are what the numbers are, not what you want them to be. Minimizing cow farts is simply a better focus.