8 ms·

> Keep in mind the UK already arrests and imprisons vast numbers of people for speech offences I think you’ve been spending too much time on Twitter

gmac 10mo ago
I wouldn’t dismiss this so easily, the Palestine Action stuff is pretty appalling.
- iamacyborg 10mo ago
  You mean folks choosing to protest under the guise of a proscribed organisation? Protesting in favour of Palestine remains legal, doing so under the name of a proscribed organisation is not. Admittedly, the reason for them being proscribed is rather idiotic.
  - pjc50 10mo ago
    That's exactly it. The proscription is ridiculous and delegitimises the whole concept of proscribed organization. It collapses into "mere support for Palestine is an arrestable offense". This didn't work against Sinn Fein and it will not work now.
    - iamacyborg 10mo ago
      > It collapses into "mere support for Palestine is an arrestable offense". It explicitly doesn’t do that, folks are still very much free to protest in support of Palestine.
    - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
      > The proscription is ridiculous They broke into a military base. If that was sanctioned by the organisation, they should be shut down.
      - mosura 10mo ago
        Exposing the military for being an inept paper tiger is a truly heinous crime.
        ben_w 10mo ago
        I think it's general knowledge that the UK military is a paper tiger, I think Charlie Stross said something about it being enough to defend one small village or something like that (he occasionally comments on this site so may correct me). I think that damaging what little remains of its defences, which may exist mostly to keep the nukes safe so nobody tries anything, is still a really bad idea. Especially given that the US is increasingly unstable and seems like it may stop responding to calls from assistance from anyone else in NATO, and the UK isn't in the EU any more and therefore can't ask the entire EU for help either just the bits that are also in NATO. Theoretically the UK could also ask Canada for help, but right now it seems more likely that Canada will be asking all of NATO except for the USA for military aid to keep the USA out. (What strange days, to write that without it being fiction…)
        bawolff 10mo ago
        Destroying military equipment neccesary for national defense is a good way to get in legal trouble in pretty much any country. They should consider themselves lucky they did it in an enlightened country like Britian. Many places in the world that would be a death sentence.
      - pjc50 10mo ago
        That's the organisation. The knock on effects are quite considerable. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/nov/27/sally-rooney-palestine-action-ban-unable-publish-books-uk https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/nov/27/sally-rooney-p... Also the whole thing moved incredibly quickly; it went from new organization to banned almost immediately. I'm fairly sure that other groups previously like the Greenham Common camp didn't get this treatment. It was reasonable to arrest people who actually broke into the base and those who organized it. Going after those speaking in support is what's excessive.
        10mo ago
  - oncallthrow 10mo ago
    [flagged]
  - Cyph0n 10mo ago
    So you understand that the proscription is the core problem, but in the same breath, still focus the blame on protestors for fighting this proscription? By the way, in case you somehow overlooked it, the whole point of people protesting under the banner of Palestine Action is to protest the illegitimate proscription.
piker 10mo ago
> While figures show that the total number of arrests for online posts fell to 9,700 last year, down from a record 13,800 in 2023... https://freespeechunion.org/daily-mail-investigation-exposes-number-of-people-arrested-for-offensive-social-media-posts/?v=7885444af42e https://freespeechunion.org/daily-mail-investigation-exposes...
- cyanydeez 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - stickfigure 10mo ago
    That's not reassuring in the slightest.
    - OJFord 10mo ago
      Not in the slightest?
      - junon 10mo ago
        No.
    - cyanydeez 10mo ago
      Is it reassuring that some of the speech is a call to kill other people both online and in the strwets? Do you even descern any difference?
  - ethanwillis 10mo ago
    Yes, let me just arrest you over some text and hold you for a couple of days. Surely no problem! But being serious if anything this is worse than no imprisonment. Why are they arresting so many people they don't have any grounds to jail longer term?
    - iamacyborg 10mo ago
cultofmetatron 10mo ago
then you haven't been paying attention. the UK is in fact arresting people for all sorts of speech online. the vast majority is not a call for violence at all.
PunchyHamster 10mo ago
compared to most countries that's correct
tekla 10mo ago
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-make-30-arrests-a-day-for-offensive-online-messages-zbv886tqf https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-make-30-arr... > Officers from 37 police forces made 12,183 arrests in 2023, the equivalent of about 33 per day. This marks an almost 58 per cent rise in arrests since before the pandemic. In 2019, forces logged 7,734 detentions.
- 4ndrewl 10mo ago
  In England and Wales there are 85k people serving custodial sentences and 250k community sentences. 12k seems significant, if true.
  - iamacyborg 10mo ago
    Arrests are not the same thing as imprisonment or community sentences.
- viraptor 10mo ago
  This article really doesn't go into what the communication was about. They have some anecdata, but once you go into 10k+ of examples, you're almost guaranteed to get mistakes. Maybe the situation is bad overall, but that article really doesn't show it.
jabedude 10mo ago
How many people would you guess were arrested last year for online posts?
goalieca 10mo ago
The simple threat of arrest, even if they only happen by the hundreds, is enough to have a chilling effect on free speech.
- iamacyborg 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - nothrabannosir 10mo ago
    Citation not needed at all. This is not a scientific journal; it’s a discussion forum. If you disagree feel free to share your own opinion.
  - SlackingOff123 10mo ago
    Do you want a citation for an opinion?
    - exe34 10mo ago
      if it's being offered as a well thought out opinion based on facts, yes absolutely, it's fine to ask for the sauce.
kubb 10mo ago
Parallel realities. Over here it seems like the US is a dystopia, with how hostile their leadership is to democratic institutions and how greatly it empowers oligarchs. They think that European countries (or commonly just "Europe") are about to arrest all citizens for criticizing politicians. "Europe" must be saved from their leftist fascist regimes. For now using propaganda. Soon militarily.
- ThrowawayTestr 10mo ago
  Didn't Germany just make it illegal to insult politicians?
  - tormeh 10mo ago
    It's illegal to insult anyone in Germany, and has been for a long time. Libel, slander, and insults are all criminal (not civil) offences. I know what you're thinking: "That sounds crazy" - Yeah, it kinda is. In practice this is rarely enforced, as the offended party must file a formal complaint and most people have better things to do.
    - Amezarak 10mo ago
      German prosecutors actually did a bizarre and out-of-touch (for an American audience) interview with 60 Minutes recently where they proudly declare they're going to bring order to the Internet and how things like calling politicians "dicks"[1] is rightfully VERBOTEN. > But it was a 2021 case involving a local politician named Andy Grote that captured the country's attention. Grote complained about a tweet, that called him a "pimmel," a German word for the male anatomy. That triggered a police raid and accusations of excessive censorship by the government. As prosecutors explained to us, in Germany, it's OK to debate politics online. But it can be a crime to call anyone a "pimmel," even a politician. Naturally, it's necessary to arrest people for being mean and/or expressing VERBOTEN political beliefs on the Internet so that...uh...everyone will feel free to express their opinions. > Josephine Ballon: This is not only a fear. It's already taking place, already half of the internet users in Germany are afraid to express their political opinion, and they rarely participate in public debates online anymore. Half of the internet users. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/policing-speech-online-germany-60-minutes-transcript/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/policing-speech-online-germany-...
miohtama 10mo ago
Here is House of Lords if Twitter is unreliable https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2025-07-17/debates/F807CB70-D90D-4A19-9433-99539B7CF21F/OnlineCommunicationOffenceArrests https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2025-07-17/debates/F807C... Online Communication Offence Arrests Volume 847: debated on Thursday 17 July 2025
sys_64738 10mo ago
Or spending too much time in jail from speaking freely.

gmac 10mo ago

I wouldn’t dismiss this so easily, the Palestine Action stuff is pretty appalling.

iamacyborg 10mo ago
You mean folks choosing to protest under the guise of a proscribed organisation? Protesting in favour of Palestine remains legal, doing so under the name of a proscribed organisation is not. Admittedly, the reason for them being proscribed is rather idiotic.
- pjc50 10mo ago
  That's exactly it. The proscription is ridiculous and delegitimises the whole concept of proscribed organization. It collapses into "mere support for Palestine is an arrestable offense". This didn't work against Sinn Fein and it will not work now.
  - iamacyborg 10mo ago
    > It collapses into "mere support for Palestine is an arrestable offense". It explicitly doesn’t do that, folks are still very much free to protest in support of Palestine.
  - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
    > The proscription is ridiculous They broke into a military base. If that was sanctioned by the organisation, they should be shut down.
    - mosura 10mo ago
      Exposing the military for being an inept paper tiger is a truly heinous crime.
      - ben_w 10mo ago
        I think it's general knowledge that the UK military is a paper tiger, I think Charlie Stross said something about it being enough to defend one small village or something like that (he occasionally comments on this site so may correct me). I think that damaging what little remains of its defences, which may exist mostly to keep the nukes safe so nobody tries anything, is still a really bad idea. Especially given that the US is increasingly unstable and seems like it may stop responding to calls from assistance from anyone else in NATO, and the UK isn't in the EU any more and therefore can't ask the entire EU for help either just the bits that are also in NATO. Theoretically the UK could also ask Canada for help, but right now it seems more likely that Canada will be asking all of NATO except for the USA for military aid to keep the USA out. (What strange days, to write that without it being fiction…)
      - bawolff 10mo ago
        Destroying military equipment neccesary for national defense is a good way to get in legal trouble in pretty much any country. They should consider themselves lucky they did it in an enlightened country like Britian. Many places in the world that would be a death sentence.
    - pjc50 10mo ago
      That's the organisation. The knock on effects are quite considerable. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/nov/27/sally-rooney-palestine-action-ban-unable-publish-books-uk https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/nov/27/sally-rooney-p... Also the whole thing moved incredibly quickly; it went from new organization to banned almost immediately. I'm fairly sure that other groups previously like the Greenham Common camp didn't get this treatment. It was reasonable to arrest people who actually broke into the base and those who organized it. Going after those speaking in support is what's excessive.
      - 10mo ago
- oncallthrow 10mo ago
  [flagged]
- Cyph0n 10mo ago
  So you understand that the proscription is the core problem, but in the same breath, still focus the blame on protestors for fighting this proscription? By the way, in case you somehow overlooked it, the whole point of people protesting under the banner of Palestine Action is to protest the illegitimate proscription.

piker 10mo ago

> While figures show that the total number of arrests for online posts fell to 9,700 last year, down from a record 13,800 in 2023... https://freespeechunion.org/daily-mail-investigation-exposes-number-of-people-arrested-for-offensive-social-media-posts/?v=7885444af42e https://freespeechunion.org/daily-mail-investigation-exposes...

cyanydeez 10mo ago
[flagged]
- stickfigure 10mo ago
  That's not reassuring in the slightest.
  - OJFord 10mo ago
    Not in the slightest?
    - junon 10mo ago
      No.
  - cyanydeez 10mo ago
    Is it reassuring that some of the speech is a call to kill other people both online and in the strwets? Do you even descern any difference?
- ethanwillis 10mo ago
  Yes, let me just arrest you over some text and hold you for a couple of days. Surely no problem! But being serious if anything this is worse than no imprisonment. Why are they arresting so many people they don't have any grounds to jail longer term?
  - iamacyborg 10mo ago

cultofmetatron 10mo ago

then you haven't been paying attention. the UK is in fact arresting people for all sorts of speech online. the vast majority is not a call for violence at all.

PunchyHamster 10mo ago

compared to most countries that's correct

tekla 10mo ago

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-make-30-arrests-a-day-for-offensive-online-messages-zbv886tqf https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-make-30-arr... > Officers from 37 police forces made 12,183 arrests in 2023, the equivalent of about 33 per day. This marks an almost 58 per cent rise in arrests since before the pandemic. In 2019, forces logged 7,734 detentions.

4ndrewl 10mo ago
In England and Wales there are 85k people serving custodial sentences and 250k community sentences. 12k seems significant, if true.
- iamacyborg 10mo ago
  Arrests are not the same thing as imprisonment or community sentences.
viraptor 10mo ago
This article really doesn't go into what the communication was about. They have some anecdata, but once you go into 10k+ of examples, you're almost guaranteed to get mistakes. Maybe the situation is bad overall, but that article really doesn't show it.

jabedude 10mo ago

How many people would you guess were arrested last year for online posts?

goalieca 10mo ago

The simple threat of arrest, even if they only happen by the hundreds, is enough to have a chilling effect on free speech.

iamacyborg 10mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- nothrabannosir 10mo ago
  Citation not needed at all. This is not a scientific journal; it’s a discussion forum. If you disagree feel free to share your own opinion.
- SlackingOff123 10mo ago
  Do you want a citation for an opinion?
  - exe34 10mo ago
    if it's being offered as a well thought out opinion based on facts, yes absolutely, it's fine to ask for the sauce.

kubb 10mo ago

Parallel realities. Over here it seems like the US is a dystopia, with how hostile their leadership is to democratic institutions and how greatly it empowers oligarchs. They think that European countries (or commonly just "Europe") are about to arrest all citizens for criticizing politicians. "Europe" must be saved from their leftist fascist regimes. For now using propaganda. Soon militarily.

ThrowawayTestr 10mo ago
Didn't Germany just make it illegal to insult politicians?
- tormeh 10mo ago
  It's illegal to insult anyone in Germany, and has been for a long time. Libel, slander, and insults are all criminal (not civil) offences. I know what you're thinking: "That sounds crazy" - Yeah, it kinda is. In practice this is rarely enforced, as the offended party must file a formal complaint and most people have better things to do.
  - Amezarak 10mo ago
    German prosecutors actually did a bizarre and out-of-touch (for an American audience) interview with 60 Minutes recently where they proudly declare they're going to bring order to the Internet and how things like calling politicians "dicks"[1] is rightfully VERBOTEN. > But it was a 2021 case involving a local politician named Andy Grote that captured the country's attention. Grote complained about a tweet, that called him a "pimmel," a German word for the male anatomy. That triggered a police raid and accusations of excessive censorship by the government. As prosecutors explained to us, in Germany, it's OK to debate politics online. But it can be a crime to call anyone a "pimmel," even a politician. Naturally, it's necessary to arrest people for being mean and/or expressing VERBOTEN political beliefs on the Internet so that...uh...everyone will feel free to express their opinions. > Josephine Ballon: This is not only a fear. It's already taking place, already half of the internet users in Germany are afraid to express their political opinion, and they rarely participate in public debates online anymore. Half of the internet users. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/policing-speech-online-germany-60-minutes-transcript/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/policing-speech-online-germany-...

miohtama 10mo ago

Here is House of Lords if Twitter is unreliable https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2025-07-17/debates/F807CB70-D90D-4A19-9433-99539B7CF21F/OnlineCommunicationOffenceArrests https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2025-07-17/debates/F807C... Online Communication Offence Arrests Volume 847: debated on Thursday 17 July 2025

sys_64738 10mo ago

Or spending too much time in jail from speaking freely.