3 ms·

Well that’s the thing with moats - they don’t just disappear one day.

alephnerd 10mo ago
These kinds of parternships also throw in free inference with MFN clauses, which make a mutual moat. A moat doesn't have to be a feature, and equity stakes have been fairly successful moats (eg. Much of AWS's ML services being powered by Anthropic models due to their equity stake in Anthropic).
- herbturbo 10mo ago
  A moat is a permanent feature protecting a castle against attack. That’s the metaphor. If it’s not their own device intrinsically protecting them then it’s not a moat in my book.
  - alephnerd 10mo ago
    That is not how we use the term "moat" in this context, because competitors eventually converge on offerings within 1-2 years. I don't need some stuck up HNer telling me about stuff I deal with in my day-to-day job. Edit: can't reply > a business deal that can be transferred to a new partner the second it expires is much more temporary Generally, these kinds of equity deals include an MFN clause.
    - afavour 10mo ago
      > That is not how we use the term "moat" in this context, because competitors eventually converge on offerings within 1-2 years. Then I guess we need a new term because that's not how I interpret the term moat either. To me, ChatGPT chat history is a moat. It allows them to differentiate their product and competitors cannot copy it. If someone switches to a new AI service they will have to build their chat history from scratch. By comparison a business deal that can be transferred to a new partner the second it expires is much more temporary.
      - jklinger410 10mo ago
        > To me, ChatGPT chat history is a moat. Every service has a chat history. You are talking about stickiness, which is (roughly) the same for every product. ChatGPT wins a bit with stickiness because their AI personalizes itself to you over time, in a way that others don't quite do. A moat is something unique. It can't really be a moat if all services offer it.
jimbokun 10mo ago
No business moat is permanent.

These kinds of parternships also throw in free inference with MFN clauses, which make a mutual moat. A moat doesn't have to be a feature, and equity stakes have been fairly successful moats (eg. Much of AWS's ML services being powered by Anthropic models due to their equity stake in Anthropic).

herbturbo 10mo ago
A moat is a permanent feature protecting a castle against attack. That’s the metaphor. If it’s not their own device intrinsically protecting them then it’s not a moat in my book.
- alephnerd 10mo ago
  That is not how we use the term "moat" in this context, because competitors eventually converge on offerings within 1-2 years. I don't need some stuck up HNer telling me about stuff I deal with in my day-to-day job. Edit: can't reply > a business deal that can be transferred to a new partner the second it expires is much more temporary Generally, these kinds of equity deals include an MFN clause.
  - afavour 10mo ago
    > That is not how we use the term "moat" in this context, because competitors eventually converge on offerings within 1-2 years. Then I guess we need a new term because that's not how I interpret the term moat either. To me, ChatGPT chat history is a moat. It allows them to differentiate their product and competitors cannot copy it. If someone switches to a new AI service they will have to build their chat history from scratch. By comparison a business deal that can be transferred to a new partner the second it expires is much more temporary.
    - jklinger410 10mo ago
      > To me, ChatGPT chat history is a moat. Every service has a chat history. You are talking about stickiness, which is (roughly) the same for every product. ChatGPT wins a bit with stickiness because their AI personalizes itself to you over time, in a way that others don't quite do. A moat is something unique. It can't really be a moat if all services offer it.

jimbokun 10mo ago

No business moat is permanent.