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> Career-motherhood conflict Anyone tried to move away from this model where there is two people of opposite gender, living together as a family, working, and
by koakuma-chan 11mo ago
> Career-motherhood conflict
Anyone tried to move away from this model where there is two people of opposite gender, living together as a family, working, and raising child(ren) at the same time? Why not have dedicated facilities that handle raising children professionally?
- justonceokay 11mo agoLike an orphanage? I think people like raising their children
- koakuma-chan 11mo agoYes, like an orphanage. I understand that some people may like raising children, but that ignores the fact that most people don’t receive education how to do that properly.
- justonceokay 11mo agoI suppose in this facility they would have special access to the knowledge and practice of how to raise a child
- nomdep 11mo agoMaybe they could go there only half of the day and we could call those places "Schools"
- Yossarrian22 11mo agoThe word “some” is doing some heavy lifting there
- nake89 11mo agoThis sounds completely dystopian.
- stephen_g 11mo agoAs bad as that sometimes is, have you heard the stories of people who grew up in orphanages? In general it was worse than having below-average parents… That’s a big part of why a lot of the world has moved from institutional care to foster systems.
- jacquesm 11mo agoFortunately there are still some things that are off-limits for the state.
- logicchains 11mo ago>that most people don’t receive education how to do that properly. Incentives matter far more than education; parents have a built-in biological incentive to care for their children, so on average they put in more effort, that's why children at orphanages do so poorly, and homeschooled children do better on standardised testing than public schooled children.
- koakuma-chan 11mo agoThis is a good point. You probably heard people complain about "Asian parents," but could it be that those "Asian parents" were actually good?
- _bohm 11mo agoIn New York, we are trying to implement universal childcare.
- poisonborz 11mo agoThis is the main topic of Brave New World.
- adzm 11mo agoSee also Plato's Republic
- beepbooptheory 11mo agoWhile a little weird to think about seriously, I always liked the model in The Dispossessed.
- prosody 11mo agoKibbutzim in Israel from the 40s-80s tried a fairly radical project of communal child-rearing. It failed when the generation raised there rejected the choice to continue the project. Viz: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/feb/19/kibbutz-child-noam-shpancer https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/feb/19/kibbutz...
- breppp 11mo agoIt was at least a good source for psychological studies. In relation to the article discussed, one of the effects this had was reducing marriage rates. The theorized reason is these children all grew together and therefore had sexual aversion similar to siblings
- lostmsu 11mo agoBut children spend a lot of time together if they attend nursery/preschool as well. And that does not seem to be producing the problem.
- breppp 11mo agoThese children spent all their time with each other, including days and nights, for 18 years, having only a hour or two with their parents a day. It's called the Westermarck Effect, but with anything in Psychology you can take it with a grain of salt
- aurareturn 11mo agoWhy not have dedicated facilities that handle raising children professionally? So 2 people have sex, deliver the baby straight to this facility, and then done? Who pays for it? How often can the parents see the kids? How much influence can the parents have on the kids? How does this differ from schools?
- charlie90 11mo agoThere will likely be no parents in this future scenario. Artificial wombs will be used.
- gedy 11mo agoNitpicking but I hate how "career" is always used when talking about women's choices, when it's just a damn job. Most women work because they have to. It's not a "career".
- delichon 11mo agoIt's possible that more people who have "careers" than "jobs" would keep working if they didn't have to, but my guess is, not by much.
- graemep 11mo agoMost men too. One thing that is missing in these conversations is men's role in child care. The two big steps we need to take are equal parenting and family friendly working hours. As a single dad in the UK its obvious to me that a lot of people still do not expect men to be raising kids or for a man to be the primary parent (which I was even before I divorced).
- edu 11mo agoWe already have daycare and schools, that take care of kids for 8h. And then there's the thing that usually parents like to spend time with their children. It would be simply better (probably harder) to improve society so one could have a great work-life balance.
- koakuma-chan 11mo ago> And then there's the thing that usually parents like to spend time with their children. As another commenter pointed out, I don’t have children, and don’t plan to ever have children, so I may not have the full picture here. But spending time with their children seems to be just a selfish want of parents, and not something that is beneficial to children themselves. I think people need to think of their children first, and not only of themselves.
- eudamoniac 11mo agoI'm not sure if this is sarcasm, but parents spending time with children is very important to the children. For example, it generally leads to better outcomes for a child to remain with their meth addict parents or their occasionally homeless parents or their violent drunk parents, than for the child to enter foster care. Being away from parents is just that bad. Homeschooled children, also, have higher educational attainments on average, by a lot. I think you'll find that if you come up with your own proxy measurement for this question it will also point towards more parent time being better.
- koakuma-chan 11mo agoFor one, meth addict or homeless or violent drunk parents would probably not be able to do homeschooling. Then, homeschooling is probably only better because it is 1 on 1, and not 1 on dozens as it is in public schools. For me, it doesn't make sense that parents are somehow magically better than professional educators, if you assume that the professional educators are actually motivated and care (there are people in this thread who are arguing that generally parents care and professionals don't).
- Propelloni 11mo agoThe German Democratic Republic had state-run universal daycare from ages 0 to 18 (Krippe, Garten, POS, FDJ). It was commonly seen as a bad thing by western societies, because it gave ample opportunity to indoctrinate. PS: POS and FDJ are not really daycare but school and youth org, but they provided services exceeding what we connect with those ideas.
- BigTTYGothGF 11mo ago> It was commonly seen as a bad thing by western societies because it gave ample opportunity to indoctrinate. One wonders how much of this viewpoint was itself indoctrinated.
- koakuma-chan 11mo ago> It was commonly seen as a bad thing by western societies, because it gave ample opportunity to indoctrinate. If you are a child living under parents, your parents also have ample opportunity to indoctrinate. There is zero viewpoint diversity.
- em-bee 11mo agothat is the official reason why germany does not allow homeschooling.
- FridayoLeary 11mo ago>Why not have dedicated facilities that handle raising children professionally? Because to even contemplate that means dismissing the entire notion of a parent child bond. Of course socialism, with it's inherent disdain of existing social structures have tried collective living, famously some kibbutzim in israel tried it, but most sensible people are horrified by such an idea. I want to let it go but i can't. The suggestion that trained professionals would somehow do a better job of raising a child then parents would is terrible. It's one of the worst ideas i've ever seen here.
- nomdep 11mo agoI'm 99% certain you don't have kids. The remaining 1% is reserved for the possibility that you do, and you just hate them and everything they stand for. Otherwise you would realize what dystopian hellscape of an idea you are suggesting.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- FridayoLeary 11mo agoHere's a recent comment thread from the parent. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46125949 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46125949 >I currently think the opposite—that humanity is inherently flawed, and that the vast majority of humans will always live miserably. His user name has a korean vibe to it. If my suspicions are correct then they could be exhibit a of the problem SK is facing.
- koakuma-chan 11mo agoMy username does not have anything to do with Korea. It is a reference to a Japanese anime Giji Harem—it is really good and funny if you are into anime, I recommend.
- BigTTYGothGF 11mo ago> His user name has a korean vibe to it. What makes you say that? To me it's clearly Japanese (the "-chan" by itself is a dead giveaway) and there's way too many open syllables to feel Korean.
- liveoneggs 11mo agoYes various societies have tried it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s%E2%80%931990s_Romanian_orphans_phenomenon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s%E2%80%931990s_Romanian_o...
- logicchains 11mo ago>Anyone tried to move away from this model where there is two people of opposite gender, living together as a family, working, and raising child(ren) at the same time? Why not have dedicated facilities that handle raising children professionally? People in general have a built-in biological incentive to treat their own biological children well. People child-rearing just as a job generally treat children worse than biological parents, and the empirical evidence supports this (e.g. the earlier children enter paid childcare, the worse their outcomes on average). Only a small minority of extremely moral people treat other people's kids as well as their own biological children.
- smusamashah 11mo agoWhy would one have kids in first place if its to only send them off to a 'dedicated child raising facility'? Even in some dystopian future where there are dedicated facilities that raise people, I can only think of labour and military being raised.
- dominotw 11mo agoyes soviet union tried that.
- graemep 11mo agoSo why would you have children? I love spending time with my kids. What is the point of having them if I do not see them? I feel really lucky I worked from home and home educated my kids, and feel most people already miss a significant amount of the joy of having kids because of work and school. Your idea would make a significant part of it into all of it.
- koakuma-chan 11mo agoThe point is to have the government control child birth and raising of children, so that the country does not have issues with population numbers, education, and other societal issues that arise from parents doing a bad job.
- graemep 11mo agoIf the government wants that they can have the kids. What is my incentive to have children in that system? We have far more problems caused by governments doing a bad job than parents doing a bad job. In general parents do a far better job than government employees do.
- koakuma-chan 11mo ago> If the government wants that they can have the kids. What is my incentive to have children in that system? You may not have the incentive, but the country population will decline if you don't. If you are a government, I'm sure there is a number of ways to make people have children, for example https://nhentai.net/g/609087/ https://nhentai.net/g/609087/. If you are something like Russia or Ukraine, you can force women to have children, just like you force men to go to war. > We have far more problems caused by governments doing a bad job than parents doing a bad job. In general parents do a far better job than government employees do. But yes, if there is no way to make education workers do good job, then I guess this system will not work.
- BigTTYGothGF 11mo ago
- js8 11mo agoIf we established a decent universal basic income, some families could opt spending time raising kids instead of working.