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Forgive my ignorance but this seems to be one of the most neutral things Hitler did. He just didn't like the font so he ordered it to be changed. Equivalent to

by 1970-01-01 11mo ago

Forgive my ignorance but this seems to be one of the most neutral things Hitler did. He just didn't like the font so he ordered it to be changed. Equivalent to your boss ordering tabs be used instead of spaces. After the war was lost the arguments just continued. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiqua%E2%80%93Fraktur_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiqua%E2%80%93Fraktur_disput...

pinkmuffinere 11mo ago
I tend to agree with you, many people are passionate about typefaces, and dictators are no exception. [Passion about typeface] seems to be a low-signal detector for dictators. I'm passionate about lasagna, and I'll bet Mussolini was too -- but that probably doesn't mean I'm a fascist.
- fainpul 11mo ago
  But if you go around and tell everyone you meet that they're doing it wrong and that lasagna MUST be prepared exactly the way you do it, because it's the one and only right way, then you're a lasagna-nazi :)
actionfromafar 11mo ago
Yeah it was so the occupied peoples could read the edicts better. Sp perhaps not so neutral, after all.
- amwet 11mo ago
  “I want a new font so it’s easier to read” isn’t neutral?
  - actionfromafar 11mo ago
    Not when you are the aggressor in WW2? I guess if Russia invaded Western Europe and Putin decided to switch from Cyrillic to Latin script so the subjugated peoples would more easily read and learn Russian, that would be neutral too?
    - irishcoffee 11mo ago
      That isn’t a genuine argument. Font face != different language + different alphabet. Font, still a bad argument but technically correct. Font face, nah.
      - nl 11mo ago
        Fraktur actually does use a partially different alphabet. For example it uses the Long s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s and Half-r: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_rotunda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_rotunda
      - actionfromafar 11mo ago
        About the "bad argument", I can't argue with you, because I'm not the one arguing. You'll have to take it up with the author of these lines: "In a hundred years, our language will be the European language. The nations of the east, the north and the west will, to communicate with us, learn our language. The prerequisite for this: The script called Gothic is replaced by the script we have called Latin so far" (Besides, what's so strange about transposing Cyrillic to Latin? It happens all the time even today when people don't want to or can't switch keyboard layouts.)
viraptor 11mo ago
It didn't happen in isolation though. There were a few changes that used aesthetics as a culture influence and what being properly German should mean. Another one which was more explicit was music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_in_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_in_Nazi_Germany It was literally anti the idea of diversity and inclusion. Much like this change. And just like with the font, that shaped preferences for years.
- 1970-01-01 11mo ago
  That's still using their other culture choices to manufacture a problem with producing consistency in typeface. It's a stretch. Any good (don't take this out of context, please) leader will settle these kinds of trivial internal disputes and move onto important problems.
  - viraptor 11mo ago
    I'm not sure why you mention consistency. The cable explicitly says it's a) for the decorum and b) anti dei. That's literally the same reason for the music restrictions - that's why I'm bringing it up.
loeg 11mo ago
As they say, "Hitler drank water."
nl 11mo ago
I rather assumed so as well, but a big of digging turns up a whole history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiqua%E2%80%93Fraktur_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiqua%E2%80%93Fraktur_disput... Surprisingly to me the Fraktur typeface was the traditional "German" typeface but was disliked by Hitler.
goku12 11mo ago
> He just didn't like the font so he ordered it to be changed. There is your answer. He imposed his will - that's what dictators do. You have to be careful when the reason for any costly change is one individual's personal preferences. It's a bad omen. > Equivalent to your boss ordering tabs be used instead of spaces. That's not always equivalent, especially if it is to set a standard. Obviously, some people using spaces and the others using tabs is not ideal in situations you're referring to. It's also fine to change the standard, if they find a significant problem with the current convention. But if your boss wants it changed, and their only explanation is their dislike of the status-quo, then that's a red flag. The problem isn't very serious right now, but could grow into one in the future and you have to be on the watch.

pinkmuffinere 11mo ago

I tend to agree with you, many people are passionate about typefaces, and dictators are no exception. [Passion about typeface] seems to be a low-signal detector for dictators. I'm passionate about lasagna, and I'll bet Mussolini was too -- but that probably doesn't mean I'm a fascist.

fainpul 11mo ago
But if you go around and tell everyone you meet that they're doing it wrong and that lasagna MUST be prepared exactly the way you do it, because it's the one and only right way, then you're a lasagna-nazi :)

actionfromafar 11mo ago

Yeah it was so the occupied peoples could read the edicts better. Sp perhaps not so neutral, after all.

amwet 11mo ago
“I want a new font so it’s easier to read” isn’t neutral?
- actionfromafar 11mo ago
  Not when you are the aggressor in WW2? I guess if Russia invaded Western Europe and Putin decided to switch from Cyrillic to Latin script so the subjugated peoples would more easily read and learn Russian, that would be neutral too?
  - irishcoffee 11mo ago
    That isn’t a genuine argument. Font face != different language + different alphabet. Font, still a bad argument but technically correct. Font face, nah.
    - nl 11mo ago
      Fraktur actually does use a partially different alphabet. For example it uses the Long s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s and Half-r: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_rotunda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_rotunda
    - actionfromafar 11mo ago
      About the "bad argument", I can't argue with you, because I'm not the one arguing. You'll have to take it up with the author of these lines: "In a hundred years, our language will be the European language. The nations of the east, the north and the west will, to communicate with us, learn our language. The prerequisite for this: The script called Gothic is replaced by the script we have called Latin so far" (Besides, what's so strange about transposing Cyrillic to Latin? It happens all the time even today when people don't want to or can't switch keyboard layouts.)

viraptor 11mo ago

It didn't happen in isolation though. There were a few changes that used aesthetics as a culture influence and what being properly German should mean. Another one which was more explicit was music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_in_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_in_Nazi_Germany It was literally anti the idea of diversity and inclusion. Much like this change. And just like with the font, that shaped preferences for years.

1970-01-01 11mo ago
That's still using their other culture choices to manufacture a problem with producing consistency in typeface. It's a stretch. Any good (don't take this out of context, please) leader will settle these kinds of trivial internal disputes and move onto important problems.
- viraptor 11mo ago
  I'm not sure why you mention consistency. The cable explicitly says it's a) for the decorum and b) anti dei. That's literally the same reason for the music restrictions - that's why I'm bringing it up.

loeg 11mo ago

As they say, "Hitler drank water."

nl 11mo ago

I rather assumed so as well, but a big of digging turns up a whole history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiqua%E2%80%93Fraktur_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiqua%E2%80%93Fraktur_disput... Surprisingly to me the Fraktur typeface was the traditional "German" typeface but was disliked by Hitler.

goku12 11mo ago

> He just didn't like the font so he ordered it to be changed. There is your answer. He imposed his will - that's what dictators do. You have to be careful when the reason for any costly change is one individual's personal preferences. It's a bad omen. > Equivalent to your boss ordering tabs be used instead of spaces. That's not always equivalent, especially if it is to set a standard. Obviously, some people using spaces and the others using tabs is not ideal in situations you're referring to. It's also fine to change the standard, if they find a significant problem with the current convention. But if your boss wants it changed, and their only explanation is their dislike of the status-quo, then that's a red flag. The problem isn't very serious right now, but could grow into one in the future and you have to be on the watch.