4 ms·

Imagine the outrage if the title were instead "China seizes Philippine oil tanker in South China Sea"

monerozcash 10mo ago
How is that comparable? That seems like a deliberate misrepresentation of the situation. US actions here almost certainly have the full backing of what they (probably rightfully) consider to be the legitimate Venezuelan government.
- antifa 10mo ago
  > probably rightfully Surely we're all old enough to know that's an obvious lie. The US government probably doesn't know or care if Maduro is a dictator, they're just here for the oil.
  - monerozcash 10mo ago
    US would get the oil regardless of who they back, there's nobody else with the technical capabilities to extract at scale in Venezuela. This is a completely ridiculous argument.
    - antifa 10mo ago
      No it's not, the current regime is very open about how excited they are about getting that oil and very hand wavy about everything else. It would be ridiculous to argue that the current regime has any genuine concerns or interest about democracy, drug trafficking (even just pardoned one), or the legitimacy of Venezuela's government.
      - monerozcash 10mo ago
        > the current regime is very open about how excited they are about getting that oil and very hand wavy about everything else Yes, because it makes sense to trust what the Trump admin tells you. Oil might be one of the many excuses they give, but it's obviously a lie because there is nobody else in the world capable of profitably extracting Venezuelan crude at any meaningful scale.
- cherryteastain 10mo ago
  > How is that comparable? That seems like a deliberate misrepresentation of the situation. Russian actions here almost certainly have the full backing of what they (probably rightfully) consider to be the legitimate Donestk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic governments.
  - monerozcash 10mo ago
    Can you explain how exactly that is supposed to be a comparable situation? It's pretty widely accepted that Edmundo González won the legitimately held elections in Venezuela
    - cherryteastain 10mo ago
      Maduro is a corrupt dictator who holds sham elections, but that does not change the fact that he unfortunately is the president of the internationally recognized government. Will you also propose US seize Turkish or Russian freighters because Erdogan and Putin "won" elections under highly suspect circumstances? If Putin came out in 2020 and said "I do not recognize Joe Biden as US president, he stole the election, Donald Trump was the real winner, so I am sanctioning America and seizing American LNG tankers" everyone would take that as a hostile action and even a casus belli.
      - monerozcash 10mo ago
        > but that does not change the fact that he unfortunately is the president of the internationally recognized government Hardly true at this point. >Will you also propose US seize Turkish or Russian freighters because Erdogan and Putin "won" elections under highly suspect circumstances? Not sure why you're asking me this. I'm not proposing the US should seize Venezuelan freighters, I'm just saying they have a reasonable excuse if they choose to do so. >If Putin came out in 2020 and said "I do not recognize Joe Biden as US president, he stole the election, Donald Trump was the real winner, so I am sanctioning America and seizing American LNG tankers" everyone would take that as a hostile action and even a casus belli. Donald Trump probably wouldn't have, and perhaps many of his supporters :)
- basisword 10mo ago
  Will you be sticking to this reasoning when the US decides Russia is the legitimate government in large parts of Ukraine in a few months?
  - monerozcash 10mo ago
    I don't see how this reasoning would be at all applicable in that situation. There are good reasons to believe that Edmundo González won the elections in Venezuela, there are no good reasons to believe anything similar about illegally occupied territories in Ukraine.
JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
> Imagine the outrage if the title were instead "China seizes Philippine oil tanker in South China Sea" China has been sinking Philippine boats in Philippine territorial waters [1]. There are good reasons to be outraged about this. But it's continuing a precedent China and Russia set, presumably assuming the West wouldn't follow. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Reed_Bank_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Reed_Bank_incident

How is that comparable? That seems like a deliberate misrepresentation of the situation. US actions here almost certainly have the full backing of what they (probably rightfully) consider to be the legitimate Venezuelan government.

antifa 10mo ago
> probably rightfully Surely we're all old enough to know that's an obvious lie. The US government probably doesn't know or care if Maduro is a dictator, they're just here for the oil.
- monerozcash 10mo ago
  US would get the oil regardless of who they back, there's nobody else with the technical capabilities to extract at scale in Venezuela. This is a completely ridiculous argument.
  - antifa 10mo ago
    No it's not, the current regime is very open about how excited they are about getting that oil and very hand wavy about everything else. It would be ridiculous to argue that the current regime has any genuine concerns or interest about democracy, drug trafficking (even just pardoned one), or the legitimacy of Venezuela's government.
    - monerozcash 10mo ago
      > the current regime is very open about how excited they are about getting that oil and very hand wavy about everything else Yes, because it makes sense to trust what the Trump admin tells you. Oil might be one of the many excuses they give, but it's obviously a lie because there is nobody else in the world capable of profitably extracting Venezuelan crude at any meaningful scale.
cherryteastain 10mo ago
> How is that comparable? That seems like a deliberate misrepresentation of the situation. Russian actions here almost certainly have the full backing of what they (probably rightfully) consider to be the legitimate Donestk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic governments.
- monerozcash 10mo ago
  Can you explain how exactly that is supposed to be a comparable situation? It's pretty widely accepted that Edmundo González won the legitimately held elections in Venezuela
  - cherryteastain 10mo ago
    Maduro is a corrupt dictator who holds sham elections, but that does not change the fact that he unfortunately is the president of the internationally recognized government. Will you also propose US seize Turkish or Russian freighters because Erdogan and Putin "won" elections under highly suspect circumstances? If Putin came out in 2020 and said "I do not recognize Joe Biden as US president, he stole the election, Donald Trump was the real winner, so I am sanctioning America and seizing American LNG tankers" everyone would take that as a hostile action and even a casus belli.
    - monerozcash 10mo ago
      > but that does not change the fact that he unfortunately is the president of the internationally recognized government Hardly true at this point. >Will you also propose US seize Turkish or Russian freighters because Erdogan and Putin "won" elections under highly suspect circumstances? Not sure why you're asking me this. I'm not proposing the US should seize Venezuelan freighters, I'm just saying they have a reasonable excuse if they choose to do so. >If Putin came out in 2020 and said "I do not recognize Joe Biden as US president, he stole the election, Donald Trump was the real winner, so I am sanctioning America and seizing American LNG tankers" everyone would take that as a hostile action and even a casus belli. Donald Trump probably wouldn't have, and perhaps many of his supporters :)
basisword 10mo ago
Will you be sticking to this reasoning when the US decides Russia is the legitimate government in large parts of Ukraine in a few months?
- monerozcash 10mo ago
  I don't see how this reasoning would be at all applicable in that situation. There are good reasons to believe that Edmundo González won the elections in Venezuela, there are no good reasons to believe anything similar about illegally occupied territories in Ukraine.

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago

> Imagine the outrage if the title were instead "China seizes Philippine oil tanker in South China Sea" China has been sinking Philippine boats in Philippine territorial waters [1]. There are good reasons to be outraged about this. But it's continuing a precedent China and Russia set, presumably assuming the West wouldn't follow. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Reed_Bank_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Reed_Bank_incident