5 ms·

Each party is splitting into factions. I imagine the establishment of both parties think social media is a problem

by feb012025 10mo ago

whimsicalism 10mo ago
Maybe. I think it's overall a rightward shift, only in urban cores is it accelerating a leftward shift. To the extent that it is motivating marginal voters to vote (which I think it is), it is also benefitting the right. It's also breaking down ethnic voting patterns in a way that benefits the right, I think.
- pessimizer 10mo ago
  It is not motivating marginal voters to vote. The choice is between two nearly identical establishment candidates from two private clubs. The electorate is going the same way it's going in Europe, except in Europe other parties are legal (although marginalized through parliamentary methods.) In the UK, for example, Reform has been consistently polling the same as the Conservatives and Labour added together., and all three of those added together only represent 2/3 of the electorate. In the US, that translates to 2/3 of people becoming non-voters. Why that might look like a rightward shift in the US is because the Republicans don't fix their primaries (since the 90s), and their voters actually have an effect on who gets picked to run. Why it won't actually be a rightward shift is because Republicans ignore their platforms after being elected, and don't mind getting thrown out at the end of a term or two to work at the businesses they helped while in office. Democrats simply don't believe in any sort of democracy anymore. They invest all their effort into yelling at black people and Hispanics, and raising as much money as they can from the worst people in the world. The rest of the time they spend attacking anybody running to the left of them as racist or Russian, while their media outlets simply ignore those people other than when they're helping promote the slander. That's whats pushing away "ethnic voting." As a black person, I know when the voting season is here because I see a bunch of paid Democrats running around calling black people who criticize their party ethnic slurs and using the word "massa" a lot. Republicans don't do that. They don't rely on black people so just ignore us. Democrats rely on us, but will never do anything for us, so they use terror.
  - whimsicalism 10mo ago
    I definitely think your views are a good example of what I mean, it’s giving internet poisoning.
marcosdumay 10mo ago
It's almost as if a country's population need more than 2 parties to express themselves.
- awesome_dude 10mo ago
  The two party system exists because even in a multi party system (eg. those that exist in proportional representation governments) still end up as "In government" vs "In opposition" Secondly, we employ "adversarial" systems for two branches of government (legislative and judicial) because it's a hell of a lot easier to spot flaws in ideas of people you are opposed to (as opposed to some European Judiciaries that have "inquisitorial" systems, where a judge investigates activity) Very often in the proportional systems people opine that "grand coalitions" should form, with the two largest parties, although that loses a lot of the advantages of the adversarial system, and has a tendency to steam roll smaller interests in the country. Finally, the Greeks pointed out that governance within societies cycles through a series of styles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory The USA itself has gone through SIX iterations of how parties should look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_system#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_system#United_States
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - thijson 10mo ago
    I think the Greeks called our form of government an oligarchy. Elections as popularity contests are so easily swung by money. Instead, democracy was determined to be selecting public officials by random lots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition I guess it's a bit like the jury system. I read an article not long ago on here about how promotions in companies should also be done by lottery in order to break up cabals.
    - whimsicalism 10mo ago
      I think the degree to which money swings general elections is vastly overrated and would love to see your evidence to the contrary. No amount of spending will get you a democrat senator in Texas, for instance.
lisbbb 10mo ago
People in power just want total control of the narrative and they don't want you to find out the truth about anything. Look at Walz in MN--he's like the ultimate Jedi "nothing to see here" mind trick with his wholesome grandfatherly persona, which is furthest from the actual reality of who and what he is. They all just want to force you into their reality and they hate it when you don't go there.
- bamboozled 10mo ago
  This is a ban on “children” having access to a social media account? What are you on about ?
awesome_dude 10mo ago
Every political party ON THE PLANET has always had to manage internal factions, it doesn't matter if you're talking the Soviet Communist Party, the Democrats, the Republicans, The Tea party faction. There's absolutely nothing new about parties having internal divisions. Even the fact that at the moment everything is so partisan is nothing new, history has shown that several times over the past century that politics has followed a penudulum that swings from partisan extremes, back to centrist moderates, and then back to the extremes.

Each party is splitting into factions. I imagine the establishment of both parties think social media is a problem

Maybe. I think it's overall a rightward shift, only in urban cores is it accelerating a leftward shift. To the extent that it is motivating marginal voters to vote (which I think it is), it is also benefitting the right. It's also breaking down ethnic voting patterns in a way that benefits the right, I think.

pessimizer 10mo ago
It is not motivating marginal voters to vote. The choice is between two nearly identical establishment candidates from two private clubs. The electorate is going the same way it's going in Europe, except in Europe other parties are legal (although marginalized through parliamentary methods.) In the UK, for example, Reform has been consistently polling the same as the Conservatives and Labour added together., and all three of those added together only represent 2/3 of the electorate. In the US, that translates to 2/3 of people becoming non-voters. Why that might look like a rightward shift in the US is because the Republicans don't fix their primaries (since the 90s), and their voters actually have an effect on who gets picked to run. Why it won't actually be a rightward shift is because Republicans ignore their platforms after being elected, and don't mind getting thrown out at the end of a term or two to work at the businesses they helped while in office. Democrats simply don't believe in any sort of democracy anymore. They invest all their effort into yelling at black people and Hispanics, and raising as much money as they can from the worst people in the world. The rest of the time they spend attacking anybody running to the left of them as racist or Russian, while their media outlets simply ignore those people other than when they're helping promote the slander. That's whats pushing away "ethnic voting." As a black person, I know when the voting season is here because I see a bunch of paid Democrats running around calling black people who criticize their party ethnic slurs and using the word "massa" a lot. Republicans don't do that. They don't rely on black people so just ignore us. Democrats rely on us, but will never do anything for us, so they use terror.
- whimsicalism 10mo ago
  I definitely think your views are a good example of what I mean, it’s giving internet poisoning.

marcosdumay 10mo ago

It's almost as if a country's population need more than 2 parties to express themselves.

awesome_dude 10mo ago
The two party system exists because even in a multi party system (eg. those that exist in proportional representation governments) still end up as "In government" vs "In opposition" Secondly, we employ "adversarial" systems for two branches of government (legislative and judicial) because it's a hell of a lot easier to spot flaws in ideas of people you are opposed to (as opposed to some European Judiciaries that have "inquisitorial" systems, where a judge investigates activity) Very often in the proportional systems people opine that "grand coalitions" should form, with the two largest parties, although that loses a lot of the advantages of the adversarial system, and has a tendency to steam roll smaller interests in the country. Finally, the Greeks pointed out that governance within societies cycles through a series of styles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory The USA itself has gone through SIX iterations of how parties should look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_system#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_system#United_States
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- thijson 10mo ago
  I think the Greeks called our form of government an oligarchy. Elections as popularity contests are so easily swung by money. Instead, democracy was determined to be selecting public officials by random lots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition I guess it's a bit like the jury system. I read an article not long ago on here about how promotions in companies should also be done by lottery in order to break up cabals.
  - whimsicalism 10mo ago
    I think the degree to which money swings general elections is vastly overrated and would love to see your evidence to the contrary. No amount of spending will get you a democrat senator in Texas, for instance.

lisbbb 10mo ago

People in power just want total control of the narrative and they don't want you to find out the truth about anything. Look at Walz in MN--he's like the ultimate Jedi "nothing to see here" mind trick with his wholesome grandfatherly persona, which is furthest from the actual reality of who and what he is. They all just want to force you into their reality and they hate it when you don't go there.

bamboozled 10mo ago
This is a ban on “children” having access to a social media account? What are you on about ?

awesome_dude 10mo ago

Every political party ON THE PLANET has always had to manage internal factions, it doesn't matter if you're talking the Soviet Communist Party, the Democrats, the Republicans, The Tea party faction. There's absolutely nothing new about parties having internal divisions. Even the fact that at the moment everything is so partisan is nothing new, history has shown that several times over the past century that politics has followed a penudulum that swings from partisan extremes, back to centrist moderates, and then back to the extremes.