4 ms·

I understand the desire of academics to help agriculture, but they really need to check in with the field before coming up with prototypes like this, because th

by dekhn 11mo ago

I understand the desire of academics to help agriculture, but they really need to check in with the field before coming up with prototypes like this, because they are duplicating existing things (ag companies already do this), making hardware that would never survive the field (ag companies already solved this), and obscenely expensive (ag companies come up with better cheaper solutions).

9rx 11mo ago
> I understand the desire of academics to help agriculture, but they really need to check in with the field before coming up with prototypes like this Do they? Academia is about the individual. It is not about others. Sometimes what an academic comes up with ends up being applicable to a larger audience, but that's not the goal. Industry is where people try to do things for others.
- dekhn 11mo ago
  I mean, if you're an academic and you don't care if anybody uses your technology, that's fine, I guess, but the folks publishing these papers want the industry to use their ideas: "In the agricultural sector, labor shortages are increasing the need for automated harvesting using robots." is the very first sentence.
  - 9rx 11mo ago
    That's a product of coming up through a school system that emphasizes writing engaging content to please teachers. "Oh no, the farmers can't find help" sounds alarming and draws you in. But as you point out, it ends there. Beyond that, the academic goes off and does whatever is interesting to him personally without concern for what anyone else might actually need. And fair enough. He'd be working in industry if he were trying to please others. And a farmer myself, I can tell you there is no "labor shortage". Quite the opposite. I can't find enough farm work to do! I could easily grow my operation tenfold without breaking a sweat. But there are so many other farmers who want that work as well. It is hard to compete.
    - dekhn 11mo ago
      I mean, many of us in academia (I was previously) have made things for industry only to learn that we ignored something important and obvious that was already known. I wish I could find the nice article that gave a bunch of examples of papers and concluded "John Deere already sells this product and it's being used at scale today; if you want to do better, at least be aware of what's going on in the field"
      - 9rx 11mo ago
        I'll grant you that people who don't understand the difference between academia and industry might mistakenly push themselves towards academia when they really want to be in industry, but we shouldn't take that as an understanding that academia and industry serve the same function. They have different names exactly because they are expected to be different. Academia is where one goes to explore oneself in pursuit of one's interests. Industry is where one goes to explore others in pursuit of serving their needs.
        dekhn 11mo ago
        I disagree. For example, I work for a company called Genentech that was founded by an academic. They discovered something important (how to clone genes) and shortly after, found medical applications (human growth hormone and insulin) that transformed treatment, We carry out open-ended research on human biology, have many visitors from academia, along with dual appointments (person is both a professor and a scientist at the company), publish in the same journals as academics, etc... And this is highly incentivized by the government: Bayh-Dole act makes universities want to patent tech that gets licensed by industry.
        9rx 11mo ago
        Where do you disagree? You point out that individuals are not statues and can shift between spending time in industry and in academia. You also point out that industry and academia are not confined by who owns the building that the people are occupying. But nobody was ever thinking that wasn't the case. This is the first time anyone has even considered that someone could be forever stuck an academic or industry operative, or that industry can't take place in universities and academics in private businesses. Good on you for coming up with hypothetical alternatives suitable for a sci-fi thriller. You've clearly got a creative mind! But since they are only hypothetical, it is not clear what purpose they serve here or how it even could begin to relate to anything being discussed.
  - zipy124 11mo ago
    That sentence is because in engineering journals you often need to state some problem you are solving. Proving the problem exists isn't necessary, just enough to convince the editor. Most academics don't care if someone uses the technology, just like most software engineers don't care about the user of their product.
    - dekhn 11mo ago
      Yes it's the same reason in grad school they taught us to write grant proposals that cure diseases of senators and congresspeople, while actually working on fundamental research problems that have no direct applicability.
  - asdff 11mo ago
    Every single STEM paper there is will have sentences like that putting the work into context and perspective.
  - graemep 11mo ago
    > In the agricultural sector, labor shortages are increasing the need for automated harvesting using robots Making things sound useful might help with funding? It does for some people and in some places.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
- esafak 11mo ago
  This is the Engineering- not Literature department. People expect it to be useful.
reachableceo 11mo ago
Really? Can you link to those solutions please ?
ramy_d 11mo ago
I'm looking at something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Dc6QNWiIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Dc6QNWiIs and I feel like they are doing totally different things. Both harvest tomatoes, but these are totally different approaches.
- ruslan 11mo ago
  Did you see tamatoes harvested that way ? They are suitable only for producing sauce.
MisterTea 11mo ago
> making hardware that would never survive the field What I saw in the article was a prototype and see no reason for it to be "field ready."
asdff 11mo ago
It might not survive the field but seems fine for greenhouse setting. And a great way to line up a good computer vision engineering job with an ag firm after.

by dekhn 11mo ago

9rx 11mo ago

> I understand the desire of academics to help agriculture, but they really need to check in with the field before coming up with prototypes like this Do they? Academia is about the individual. It is not about others. Sometimes what an academic comes up with ends up being applicable to a larger audience, but that's not the goal. Industry is where people try to do things for others.

dekhn 11mo ago
I mean, if you're an academic and you don't care if anybody uses your technology, that's fine, I guess, but the folks publishing these papers want the industry to use their ideas: "In the agricultural sector, labor shortages are increasing the need for automated harvesting using robots." is the very first sentence.
- 9rx 11mo ago
  That's a product of coming up through a school system that emphasizes writing engaging content to please teachers. "Oh no, the farmers can't find help" sounds alarming and draws you in. But as you point out, it ends there. Beyond that, the academic goes off and does whatever is interesting to him personally without concern for what anyone else might actually need. And fair enough. He'd be working in industry if he were trying to please others. And a farmer myself, I can tell you there is no "labor shortage". Quite the opposite. I can't find enough farm work to do! I could easily grow my operation tenfold without breaking a sweat. But there are so many other farmers who want that work as well. It is hard to compete.
  - dekhn 11mo ago
    I mean, many of us in academia (I was previously) have made things for industry only to learn that we ignored something important and obvious that was already known. I wish I could find the nice article that gave a bunch of examples of papers and concluded "John Deere already sells this product and it's being used at scale today; if you want to do better, at least be aware of what's going on in the field"
    - 9rx 11mo ago
      I'll grant you that people who don't understand the difference between academia and industry might mistakenly push themselves towards academia when they really want to be in industry, but we shouldn't take that as an understanding that academia and industry serve the same function. They have different names exactly because they are expected to be different. Academia is where one goes to explore oneself in pursuit of one's interests. Industry is where one goes to explore others in pursuit of serving their needs.
      - dekhn 11mo ago
        I disagree. For example, I work for a company called Genentech that was founded by an academic. They discovered something important (how to clone genes) and shortly after, found medical applications (human growth hormone and insulin) that transformed treatment, We carry out open-ended research on human biology, have many visitors from academia, along with dual appointments (person is both a professor and a scientist at the company), publish in the same journals as academics, etc... And this is highly incentivized by the government: Bayh-Dole act makes universities want to patent tech that gets licensed by industry.
        9rx 11mo ago
        Where do you disagree? You point out that individuals are not statues and can shift between spending time in industry and in academia. You also point out that industry and academia are not confined by who owns the building that the people are occupying. But nobody was ever thinking that wasn't the case. This is the first time anyone has even considered that someone could be forever stuck an academic or industry operative, or that industry can't take place in universities and academics in private businesses. Good on you for coming up with hypothetical alternatives suitable for a sci-fi thriller. You've clearly got a creative mind! But since they are only hypothetical, it is not clear what purpose they serve here or how it even could begin to relate to anything being discussed.
- zipy124 11mo ago
  That sentence is because in engineering journals you often need to state some problem you are solving. Proving the problem exists isn't necessary, just enough to convince the editor. Most academics don't care if someone uses the technology, just like most software engineers don't care about the user of their product.
  - dekhn 11mo ago
    Yes it's the same reason in grad school they taught us to write grant proposals that cure diseases of senators and congresspeople, while actually working on fundamental research problems that have no direct applicability.
- asdff 11mo ago
  Every single STEM paper there is will have sentences like that putting the work into context and perspective.
- graemep 11mo ago
  > In the agricultural sector, labor shortages are increasing the need for automated harvesting using robots Making things sound useful might help with funding? It does for some people and in some places.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
esafak 11mo ago
This is the Engineering- not Literature department. People expect it to be useful.

reachableceo 11mo ago

Really? Can you link to those solutions please ?

ramy_d 11mo ago

I'm looking at something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Dc6QNWiIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Dc6QNWiIs and I feel like they are doing totally different things. Both harvest tomatoes, but these are totally different approaches.

ruslan 11mo ago
Did you see tamatoes harvested that way ? They are suitable only for producing sauce.

MisterTea 11mo ago

> making hardware that would never survive the field What I saw in the article was a prototype and see no reason for it to be "field ready."

asdff 11mo ago

It might not survive the field but seems fine for greenhouse setting. And a great way to line up a good computer vision engineering job with an ag firm after.