4 ms·

Because a lot if EV buyers are interested in the environmental impact of their purchase?

ceejayoz 11mo ago
Alternatively: Because fossil fuel companies have a long, long history of astroturfing public opinion to benefit their business. Same trick with solar farms: https://www.npr.org/2023/02/18/1154867064/solar-power-misinformation-activists-rural-america https://www.npr.org/2023/02/18/1154867064/solar-power-misinf... And wind: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-oil-and-gas-industry-is-behind-offshore-wind-misinformation/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-oil-and-gas-ind...
- bpt3 11mo ago
  I see this argument almost exclusively from the fuckcars crowd, because their existing environmental arguments against ICE vehicles don't apply to EVs. If you're claiming that the oil and gas lobby is facilitating their criticism of any automobile, I hope you're right because that would be hilarious.
  - ceejayoz 11mo ago
    > I see this argument almost exclusively from the fuckcars crowd... That's not shocking to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Earth_(US) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Earth_(US) > Friends of the Earth U.S. was founded in California in 1969 by environmentalist David Brower after he left the Sierra Club. The organization was launched with the help of Donald Aitken, Jerry Mander and a $200,000 donation from the personal funds of Robert O. Anderson. One of its first major campaigns was the protest of nuclear power, particularly in California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Orville_Anderson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Orville_Anderson > Robert Orville Anderson (April 12, 1917 – December 2, 2007) was an American businessman, art collector, and philanthropist who founded [the United States' sixth-largest oil company] Atlantic Richfield Company (ARCO).
Spivak 11mo ago
I say this as someone who owns an electric scooter and whose next car will be an EV—the sales pitch for EVs right now is basically pay more (especially now that the tax credit is gone) to have a worse time and maybe eventually claw some of it back over the lifetime of the car in fuel savings. The environmental impact is the pro in the pro con list. So if that doesn't pan out, or doesn't pan out enough it's going to be a tough sell. Just the cost to get my garage outfitted with a charging port is about to be in the thousands because it requires me to replace the entire breaker panel. Now this is a me problem because that panel is ancient but it does add to the total cost of "doing this" and going EV.
- jibe 11mo ago
  Watch out for electricians who try to rip off new EV owners. Make sure you get a few estimates. When we added a charger, bids were $2000, $2000, and $500.
  - fullstop 11mo ago
    Mine was about $1,100 which included a $250 permit / inspection fee from my township.
- eunoia 11mo ago
  > to have a worse time I have a much better time in my EV than my ICE car but to each their own.
- fullstop 11mo ago
  > Just the cost to get my garage outfitted with a charging port is about to be in the thousands because it requires me to replace the entire breaker panel. Now this is a me problem because that panel is ancient but it does add to the total cost of "doing this" and going EV. You likely don't need to replace the panel, as load management options exist. Wallbox, in particular, has an option where you can add a modbus doo-dad (carlo gavazzi energy management module) to your panel and it will monitor the overall usage and drop the EVSE current to keep it at a safe level. It's more expensive than if you had a modern panel, but less expensive than replacing the panel itself.

Alternatively: Because fossil fuel companies have a long, long history of astroturfing public opinion to benefit their business. Same trick with solar farms: https://www.npr.org/2023/02/18/1154867064/solar-power-misinformation-activists-rural-america https://www.npr.org/2023/02/18/1154867064/solar-power-misinf... And wind: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-oil-and-gas-industry-is-behind-offshore-wind-misinformation/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-oil-and-gas-ind...

bpt3 11mo ago
I see this argument almost exclusively from the fuckcars crowd, because their existing environmental arguments against ICE vehicles don't apply to EVs. If you're claiming that the oil and gas lobby is facilitating their criticism of any automobile, I hope you're right because that would be hilarious.
- ceejayoz 11mo ago
  > I see this argument almost exclusively from the fuckcars crowd... That's not shocking to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Earth_(US) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Earth_(US) > Friends of the Earth U.S. was founded in California in 1969 by environmentalist David Brower after he left the Sierra Club. The organization was launched with the help of Donald Aitken, Jerry Mander and a $200,000 donation from the personal funds of Robert O. Anderson. One of its first major campaigns was the protest of nuclear power, particularly in California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Orville_Anderson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Orville_Anderson > Robert Orville Anderson (April 12, 1917 – December 2, 2007) was an American businessman, art collector, and philanthropist who founded [the United States' sixth-largest oil company] Atlantic Richfield Company (ARCO).

Spivak 11mo ago

I say this as someone who owns an electric scooter and whose next car will be an EV—the sales pitch for EVs right now is basically pay more (especially now that the tax credit is gone) to have a worse time and maybe eventually claw some of it back over the lifetime of the car in fuel savings. The environmental impact is the pro in the pro con list. So if that doesn't pan out, or doesn't pan out enough it's going to be a tough sell. Just the cost to get my garage outfitted with a charging port is about to be in the thousands because it requires me to replace the entire breaker panel. Now this is a me problem because that panel is ancient but it does add to the total cost of "doing this" and going EV.

jibe 11mo ago
Watch out for electricians who try to rip off new EV owners. Make sure you get a few estimates. When we added a charger, bids were $2000, $2000, and $500.
- fullstop 11mo ago
  Mine was about $1,100 which included a $250 permit / inspection fee from my township.
eunoia 11mo ago
> to have a worse time I have a much better time in my EV than my ICE car but to each their own.
fullstop 11mo ago
> Just the cost to get my garage outfitted with a charging port is about to be in the thousands because it requires me to replace the entire breaker panel. Now this is a me problem because that panel is ancient but it does add to the total cost of "doing this" and going EV. You likely don't need to replace the panel, as load management options exist. Wallbox, in particular, has an option where you can add a modbus doo-dad (carlo gavazzi energy management module) to your panel and it will monitor the overall usage and drop the EVSE current to keep it at a safe level. It's more expensive than if you had a modern panel, but less expensive than replacing the panel itself.