4 ms·

Does the Democratic party actually have a platform capable of beating the incumbent Trump Republicans? Or is it just this kind of stuff? Ban kids from YouTube

by petcat 11mo ago

Does the Democratic party actually have a platform capable of beating the incumbent Trump Republicans? Or is it just this kind of stuff? Ban kids from YouTube?

everdrive 11mo ago
It's interesting, because quite a lot of the pornography ID laws are passed by Republicans and popular among Republicans. I don't mean this as a "both sides" sort of argument, but rather that modern tech seems to be unpopular among all constituents, even if different groups have their preferred villain.
- VWWHFSfQ 11mo ago
  I feel like those laws are different because they specifically target pornography, which is seen as an evangelical moral sin. They would prefer to ban it completely, but that most likely runs afoul of the Constitution. So their next best bet is just to try to limit it to over-18s. Obviously the end result is the same, but I think the motivation is different.
  - everdrive 11mo ago
    >which is seen as an evangelical moral sin Maybe. Most of the debate that I hear feels similar to social media commentary -- teen boys getting their brains fried by constant access to stimulus. I don't hear anything about onanism or sinning. Mind you, I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but just that most of the arguments I hear are saying "we think this is an identifiable and secular harm."
  - watwut 11mo ago
    > They would prefer to ban it completely, but that most likely runs afoul of the Constitution. So their next best bet is just to try to limit it to over-18s. They dont care about constitution. And they are in position to reinterpret it however they want to, regardless of its text and meaning.
    - VWWHFSfQ 11mo ago
      If that was actually true then states would have banned or blocked already. This is not a new issue and it has been challenged unsuccessfully many times.
      - watwut 11mo ago
        That was before conservatives stopped caring about pretending they care about constitution. They dont really care about porn now tho.
mzajc 11mo ago
> On March 12, 2025, Politico reported that Emanuel was interested in running for president in the 2028 U.S. presidential election. They are going to find out soon enough.
iamnothere 11mo ago
That would require making positive, pragmatic suggestions that could improve the lives of the average person, rather than moralizing and kowtowing to the special interest groups and wealthy donors who have captured the party. Good luck with that. As it is we now have two parties obsessed with “regulating” the morality of citizens while bleeding them out financially.
- estearum 11mo ago
  No, it would require overcoming a shameless demagogue and enablers who have no problem blatantly lying about everything to everyone. Democracy has been known since its invention to be extremely vulnerable to such actors. It's vulnerable to it because it's nearly impossible to counter. Your critique is valid to some degree, but Trump won simply because he had the shamelessness to lie over and over and over again that he'd bring prices down. That's it. No "positive, pragmatic suggestions" are electorally stronger than simple untruths stated with confidence ad infinitum.
  - iamnothere 11mo ago
    Good luck with that. This was the message of the consultant class in 2016 and 2024 and it’s why Dems lost both of those elections. Biden, for all his flaws, actually did attempt to articulate and focus on a positive message and actively reached out to struggling workers. And he won.
    - estearum 11mo ago
      The message of the consultant class is that demagogues can win by just lying to people? Which consultants said that? Biden won because he came hot on the heels of Trump's complete inability to actually govern. Which specific pragmatic, positive visions did Biden put forth that are so distinct from Harris's that they won in one case and lost in another?
      - iamnothere 11mo ago
        No, the message was that winning was about “overcoming a shameless demagogue and enablers who have no problem blatantly lying about everything to everyone,” plus shallow pandering to diversity, rather than delivering tangible benefits to Americans. In both 2016 and 2024 the Dem message to voters was that everything was fine, no radical economic change was needed, vote against orange man and all would be well. This was a losing position against a populist. Biden called on his long record of support for labor and proposed investing in American manufacturing, which was a winner in swing states especially since the economy was hurting due to the pandemic.
energy123 11mo ago
It's popular in Australia according to polling even though you'd never guess that based on sampling opinions about it from social media. Credibly fixing both social media and cost of living would be an effective platform across the West.
- chii 11mo ago
  > It's popular in Australia according to polling depends on how or who you poll. I dont think it is popular. It's just that there's a lot of stigma when you try to argue against "saving the children" type policy - which is why this gets used to pass laws that otherwise would be difficult to pass if the true intentions were revealed. > Credibly fixing "credibly" is carrying a lot of weight here.
  - energy123 11mo ago
    The polls I've seen show banning social media for under 16s has 70-74% support in Australia and the UK, with about 20% opposed. What polls are you looking at?
davidmurdoch 11mo ago
Is this not a bipartisan issue?
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
phantasmish 11mo ago
The pitch of the centrist/“3rd way” wing that’s still, incredibly, ascendant even after the massive party shift on the other side that was teed up in the late ‘00s and realized in 2016, is basically “we’re just like Reagan but we like the gays and abortion a little more, and like guns a lot less”. It’s a shit message, but they’re apparently permanently damaged by the 1980 landslide re-election loss to Reagan and incapable of moving on. IDK if liberal democracy will survive here long enough for us to see if another wing of the party can ever get those folks to let them try something else. [edit] not for nothing, Obama lightly hinted at a move away from that in his campaigning (if not his governing) and it seemed to work pretty damn well. Why they didn’t double down on that is anyone’s guess, but I’d suppose it rhymes with “bobbying”.
- devilbunny 11mo ago
  1984, not 1980, FWIW, and the Democratic Party old guard had been pretty badly beaten up by the 1968 and 1972 conventions. Tip O'Neill was one of the last of that group to really hold power.
  - phantasmish 11mo ago
    1980 was the famous almost-every-state-is-red presidential election map that scared democrats shitless and convinced (enough of) them the way forward was shifting much closer to Reagan on many issues (including, notably, joining the Republican neoliberal movement). But yeah it took an election cycle or two to stabilize after that. [edit] I mean yes 1984's map was even worse, but 1980's was reeeeeal bad. Six states won in 1980, versus one in 1984. And we have a guy who won a pretty ordinary split of states and less than a majority of votes-cast calling his win in 2024 a "landslide", lol. No, Reagan's elections are what a landslide looks like. [edit edit] I mean I don't really want to quibble over the details, it probably was the one-two punch of those that really set the direction and we seem to agree on the basics that it was Reagan's crushing electoral success that set the tone for Democrats for up until... well, still today, largely.
steviedotboston 11mo ago
banning kids from youtube seems pretty reasonable
lesuorac 11mo ago
Unfortunately yes. Trump won during a time where incumbents lost by ~10 points. He narrowly beat a candidate that lost their only primary run by <2 point. Trump's very vocal minority is very good at making people think there is a silent majority. However, the democrats have been elected quite a lot this millennium and they've fully shown they're incapable of making necessary reforms so there's going to keep being populist candidates until there's new blue blood.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
spamizbad 11mo ago
The good news is Emmanuel, although a media gadfly, isn't well liked by Democratic voters so he won't make it out of a Democratic primary.

by petcat 11mo ago

Does the Democratic party actually have a platform capable of beating the incumbent Trump Republicans? Or is it just this kind of stuff? Ban kids from YouTube?

everdrive 11mo ago

It's interesting, because quite a lot of the pornography ID laws are passed by Republicans and popular among Republicans. I don't mean this as a "both sides" sort of argument, but rather that modern tech seems to be unpopular among all constituents, even if different groups have their preferred villain.

VWWHFSfQ 11mo ago
I feel like those laws are different because they specifically target pornography, which is seen as an evangelical moral sin. They would prefer to ban it completely, but that most likely runs afoul of the Constitution. So their next best bet is just to try to limit it to over-18s. Obviously the end result is the same, but I think the motivation is different.
- everdrive 11mo ago
  >which is seen as an evangelical moral sin Maybe. Most of the debate that I hear feels similar to social media commentary -- teen boys getting their brains fried by constant access to stimulus. I don't hear anything about onanism or sinning. Mind you, I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but just that most of the arguments I hear are saying "we think this is an identifiable and secular harm."
- watwut 11mo ago
  > They would prefer to ban it completely, but that most likely runs afoul of the Constitution. So their next best bet is just to try to limit it to over-18s. They dont care about constitution. And they are in position to reinterpret it however they want to, regardless of its text and meaning.
  - VWWHFSfQ 11mo ago
    If that was actually true then states would have banned or blocked already. This is not a new issue and it has been challenged unsuccessfully many times.
    - watwut 11mo ago
      That was before conservatives stopped caring about pretending they care about constitution. They dont really care about porn now tho.

mzajc 11mo ago

> On March 12, 2025, Politico reported that Emanuel was interested in running for president in the 2028 U.S. presidential election. They are going to find out soon enough.

iamnothere 11mo ago

That would require making positive, pragmatic suggestions that could improve the lives of the average person, rather than moralizing and kowtowing to the special interest groups and wealthy donors who have captured the party. Good luck with that. As it is we now have two parties obsessed with “regulating” the morality of citizens while bleeding them out financially.

estearum 11mo ago
No, it would require overcoming a shameless demagogue and enablers who have no problem blatantly lying about everything to everyone. Democracy has been known since its invention to be extremely vulnerable to such actors. It's vulnerable to it because it's nearly impossible to counter. Your critique is valid to some degree, but Trump won simply because he had the shamelessness to lie over and over and over again that he'd bring prices down. That's it. No "positive, pragmatic suggestions" are electorally stronger than simple untruths stated with confidence ad infinitum.
- iamnothere 11mo ago
  Good luck with that. This was the message of the consultant class in 2016 and 2024 and it’s why Dems lost both of those elections. Biden, for all his flaws, actually did attempt to articulate and focus on a positive message and actively reached out to struggling workers. And he won.
  - estearum 11mo ago
    The message of the consultant class is that demagogues can win by just lying to people? Which consultants said that? Biden won because he came hot on the heels of Trump's complete inability to actually govern. Which specific pragmatic, positive visions did Biden put forth that are so distinct from Harris's that they won in one case and lost in another?
    - iamnothere 11mo ago
      No, the message was that winning was about “overcoming a shameless demagogue and enablers who have no problem blatantly lying about everything to everyone,” plus shallow pandering to diversity, rather than delivering tangible benefits to Americans. In both 2016 and 2024 the Dem message to voters was that everything was fine, no radical economic change was needed, vote against orange man and all would be well. This was a losing position against a populist. Biden called on his long record of support for labor and proposed investing in American manufacturing, which was a winner in swing states especially since the economy was hurting due to the pandemic.

energy123 11mo ago

It's popular in Australia according to polling even though you'd never guess that based on sampling opinions about it from social media. Credibly fixing both social media and cost of living would be an effective platform across the West.

chii 11mo ago
> It's popular in Australia according to polling depends on how or who you poll. I dont think it is popular. It's just that there's a lot of stigma when you try to argue against "saving the children" type policy - which is why this gets used to pass laws that otherwise would be difficult to pass if the true intentions were revealed. > Credibly fixing "credibly" is carrying a lot of weight here.
- energy123 11mo ago
  The polls I've seen show banning social media for under 16s has 70-74% support in Australia and the UK, with about 20% opposed. What polls are you looking at?

davidmurdoch 11mo ago

Is this not a bipartisan issue?

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

phantasmish 11mo ago

The pitch of the centrist/“3rd way” wing that’s still, incredibly, ascendant even after the massive party shift on the other side that was teed up in the late ‘00s and realized in 2016, is basically “we’re just like Reagan but we like the gays and abortion a little more, and like guns a lot less”. It’s a shit message, but they’re apparently permanently damaged by the 1980 landslide re-election loss to Reagan and incapable of moving on. IDK if liberal democracy will survive here long enough for us to see if another wing of the party can ever get those folks to let them try something else. [edit] not for nothing, Obama lightly hinted at a move away from that in his campaigning (if not his governing) and it seemed to work pretty damn well. Why they didn’t double down on that is anyone’s guess, but I’d suppose it rhymes with “bobbying”.

devilbunny 11mo ago
1984, not 1980, FWIW, and the Democratic Party old guard had been pretty badly beaten up by the 1968 and 1972 conventions. Tip O'Neill was one of the last of that group to really hold power.
- phantasmish 11mo ago
  1980 was the famous almost-every-state-is-red presidential election map that scared democrats shitless and convinced (enough of) them the way forward was shifting much closer to Reagan on many issues (including, notably, joining the Republican neoliberal movement). But yeah it took an election cycle or two to stabilize after that. [edit] I mean yes 1984's map was even worse, but 1980's was reeeeeal bad. Six states won in 1980, versus one in 1984. And we have a guy who won a pretty ordinary split of states and less than a majority of votes-cast calling his win in 2024 a "landslide", lol. No, Reagan's elections are what a landslide looks like. [edit edit] I mean I don't really want to quibble over the details, it probably was the one-two punch of those that really set the direction and we seem to agree on the basics that it was Reagan's crushing electoral success that set the tone for Democrats for up until... well, still today, largely.

steviedotboston 11mo ago

banning kids from youtube seems pretty reasonable

lesuorac 11mo ago

Unfortunately yes. Trump won during a time where incumbents lost by ~10 points. He narrowly beat a candidate that lost their only primary run by <2 point. Trump's very vocal minority is very good at making people think there is a silent majority. However, the democrats have been elected quite a lot this millennium and they've fully shown they're incapable of making necessary reforms so there's going to keep being populist candidates until there's new blue blood.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

spamizbad 11mo ago

The good news is Emmanuel, although a media gadfly, isn't well liked by Democratic voters so he won't make it out of a Democratic primary.