16 ms·

Android users outraged over Motorola's broken promise

80 points by iProject 14y ago

coopdog 14y ago
He said it was a resourcing issue, they didn't have the resources to patch every phone and considered every option. Except, it seems... paying for more resources? I'm just glad to be on a Galaxy Nexus with OTA updates direct from Google. Even then the version I was on was configured not to receive OTA updates as it was a Nexus Samsung ROM not a Nexus Google ROM. It took reflashing the Google image using community tools, something that is mostly not possible for most of the population. I suppose the only solution is greater awareness of the issue, to increase demand for better support
- StavrosK 14y ago
  I don't understand the problem. Why can we upgrade our computers' OSes so easily, while it's impossible to do it for phones? Don't they have drivers for all their parts so you can just plug them in the OS's API and have the newer versions just work? Why does it take so much work?
  - buster 14y ago
    Apparently the driver situation is much different on phones. All the different SoCs need extra drivers, the graphic chips, the display, everything. It's very different on a PC (where you may have upgrade problems as well, if you have hardware that has no drivers for your new OS) and it's especially easy for a Mac.
    - zurn 14y ago
      And that part of Android is largely closed source, so phone vendors are on the mercy of chipset makers, who might not have updating drivers for previous generation hardware as their most important mission.
    - mtgx 14y ago
      Plus, I think Google made a terrible mistake in the beginning by not asking manufacturers to support the drivers for their phones for 2 years or more. It would've been even better if they convinced them to make all drivers open source, although that might've been a lot harder to do.
  - eternalban 14y ago
    It is a solved problem, as you point out. So it's just business. Symmetry does break when we consider that you don't purchase your PC after consulting and getting permission from your internet provider. Imagine that .. Now the funny thing - insert haha here -- is that the trend seems to be for getting herded onto small, mobile, and ultimately task focused devices and ubiquitous computing. This topic really has significant social bearing far outside its current utilitarian scope. Now lets meet the happy tuple: (Utilitarian, Totalitarian)
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    > Don't they have drivers for all their parts There are some differences here: PC components are usually long lived and we expect them to last a couple major system upgrades. This expectation is relatively new with embedded electronics, where the norm has been not to update software at all (think about updating your washing machine firmware). Therefore, the idea of revising a device driver for a component that's already shipping is somewhat alien for a hardware maker - all their resources are devoted to the next generation and few, if any, software improvements trickle back to the previous-gen components. Another factor is driver quality. A lot of the device driver code I saw is full with embarrassing hacks needed to cope with hardware problems and looks a lot like development ended as soon as it worked, without much regard to future maintanability, or even commenting the hacks. Looks a lot like design engineers preferring green wires to correct PCB mistakes while repair engineers favoring the use of yellow ones.
    - DeepDuh 14y ago
      Yet Apple manages that part of the deal reasonably well. I'd say what's missing is an industry device standard a la IBM PC, such that drivers can be decoupled from the overall device development. It seems like low to midrange smartphones have experienced a race to the bottom before they were even in the position to lower the spending on software integration. I just hope that consumers are aware of this and choose devices that are based on standards set by the OS developer, such as Nexus and Windows Phone. Google has some homework to do in terms of the Nexus brand awareness if you ask me.
      - rbanffy 14y ago
        > what's missing is an industry device standard a la IBM PC I fear that. Before the IBM PC clones the personal computer market was fragmented, but evolution was very fast. In the mid-80's, we had computers and capabilities x86 PCs would only gain in the mid-90's (for instance, plug-and-play expansion slots were present in the Apple II). Amigas had preemptive multitasking and Ataris pushed the price of 32 bit computing to impressive lows. Acorn introduced a RISC-based PC whose processor now powers just about everything that needs to process information around you. Today, most personal computers are descendants of the IBM PC and employ an extended version of its horrid instruction set (the x86 was Intel's plan-B at the time - i432 was plan-A) running a matrioska of computers with something similar to an IBM 5150 at the core. The three major OSs in use on PCs are derived from 60's technologies, two from Unix, one from VMS. We deserve more.
  - nmridul 14y ago
    Its more of a business decision me thinks. A lot will not buy the latest phone Model if they could update the software on their 2 year old phone that would give them all the features So, Samsung will be able to sell fewer Galaxy 3 if a user could update the Galaxy 2. (Even if the new OS version is slow on an older hardware).
- mtgx 14y ago
  Another solution for lack of resources would be reducing complexity. They need to release fewer models a year and promote only those throughout the year. Of course they need a lot more resources for upgrades if they release a different model every month. Rumors say that starting with Android 4.2, and especially with Android 5.0, Google will start upgrading all "Nexus certified" devices (and everyone can make such a device, if they want, under strict rules). I really hope that's true, and I hope the market starts moving towards those devices rather than regular Android ones so it incentivizes manufacturers to build them. I also hope Google intends to upgrade them for 2 years since the phone's launch. http://androidandme.com/2012/10/news/rumor-android-4-2-to-feature-project-roadrunner-new-play-store-customization-center-enhanced-google-now/ http://androidandme.com/2012/10/news/rumor-android-4-2-to-fe... Reducing complexity could also be done if Google released only one major upgrade per year, instead of two. That way it's much less work for manufacturers, too, and most users don't have to be 2 versions behind all the time (like most are on Gingerbread right now). Hopefully Google intends to only release Android 5.0 next year, and that's it. It should also make it easier for developers, who don't have to worry about 5 different API versions at once.
  - msh 14y ago
    Or maybe different phones with same internals (see SonyE's Xperia 2011 line which all got ICS updates).
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    > They need to release fewer models a year Remember you (or me) are not their clients. The telcos we buy phones from are and they want more models they can push. Also, there are certification issues on different markets. For instance, it's illegal to use an iPhone 5 in Brazil because it wasn't approved by the regulatory agency. One way Motorola can get around this would be to make the phones more modular, with models differing in peripheral components (keypads, LCDs, cameras), keeping the computing engine consistent and manage building images with component-specific flags. One way Google could step in to help would be to make less updates to Android core and release more frequent updates of their userland apps (GMail, Maps, Plus etc). I get JB has better rendering performance on current hardware, but I can live without a performance enhancement for a phone I already have if, in return, I get something like Google Now. And finally, telcos can somehow mitigate the problem by making the phone purchase experience better. If the experience of upgrading a phone were enjoyable, people would do it more often, keep themselves locked in their contracts and just be happy about it.
- justin66 14y ago
  > He said it was a resourcing issue, they didn't have the resources to patch every phone and considered every option. Except, it seems... paying for more resources? Yeah, and this is the part that's so strange. Attach a dollar figure to how much it would have cost to broaden the list of updated phones. Then consider that Google/Motorola is basically drowning in money and that the dollar figure is just a rounding error. Google buying Motorola was always kind of mysterious. Now it's more mysterious. Google, why would you do something like that if you weren't going to, at a minimum, make sure that they support your stuff as well as possible?
  - antidoh 14y ago
    They bought Motorola for their patents. Patents are strategic, employees and devices are tactical.
tomjen3 14y ago
Stuff like this is androids biggest issue. My HTC was supposed to get 2.3, but despite their promises they never did that.
- darklajid 14y ago
  Same thing for me with HTC ('Hero'.. Really?), and no different now with LG (P990 / Optimus 2x). Update to ICS was promised a year ago. Look at link like this (or any LG source on the net that allows comments) to see angry (and .. childish) people: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=334420639902596 https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=334420639902596 So - apart from buying a Nexus device (or maybe a Samsung?), it's the same bullshit w/ every manufacturer, I guess.
  - dman 14y ago
    Same story with Samsung. Droid Charge owners are stuck on Gingerbread.
- tarkin2 14y ago
  If your HTC is a Desire, it did get it, but it wasn't OTR and you had to download something from their support site to get it working. Hardly ideal, I know. Not sure about the other models.
raverbashing 14y ago
You know what Users can cry me a river. Motorola has repeatedly broken their promises. This is not the first time a new phone is not upgraded. I won't touch a Motorola phone, yes, even with Google. I may opt for a Android phone next, but other manufacturers have presented more upgrade options. Incompetence runs deeply in some organizations This is a big sore thumb for Android, something that Google should really enforce against the big vendors.
- SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
  Yep. My first thought was "is anyone actually surprised by this?"
kmfrk 14y ago
If they advertised this in conjunction with their devices, I imagine consumers would be able to get their consumer protection agency involved because of false advertising.
navs 14y ago
This is what keeps me from android. I'm sure there are other android phones out there that receive updates but until I do a fair amount of research I won't know for sure. My days of carefully researching device purchases are behind me. I just want to walk into a store, buy a new phone and know for the next 2-3 years I'll get all the latest updates. EDIT: Android phone recommendations?
- div 14y ago
  This is what drove me away from Android and just made me get an iPhone. Much like you, I'm done with researching what device to get for weeks, finally settling on one (with the necessary compromises) and then get shafted anyway. Plenty happy with my iPhone so far, I may reconsider Android once the no-upgrade, crappy custom skin, comes with crapware problems it's riddled with are resolved.
  - twism 14y ago
    It's been resolved. Get the phone sold by Google themselves. (GSM Galaxy Nexus) from the Google Play Store. You wouldn't get a Motorola phone with iOS on it (in the event Motorola happened to get their hands on iOS source)?
    - woadwarrior01 14y ago
      Are you sure? This was my reasoning when I bought a Nexus S in early 2011 just after it was released. It came with Gingerbread. Later, at the end of the year, they released the ICS update, and then subsequently was blocked. One of my friends got it, but I never got it (until I downloaded the ROM from somewhere and manually updated). The official line was that this was due to poor battery backup, but I felt the battery backup time improved after the update. Eventually I ended up selling it for 100$ and buying a iPhone 4s. Clearly, all hardware manufacturers have an incentive to not give updates in order to compel people to buy their latest devices. It's just that Apple plays a slightly different game by giving updates, which make your device slower and slower with every upgrade until about 18-24 months later, you just fork out cash to buy their latest device.
protolif 14y ago
"But Android is such an open platform! /QQ" Meanwhile, my iPad 2 just asked me if I wanted to upgrade to iOS6. It did it over wifi, and the whole thing took maybe half an hour.
- JBiserkov 14y ago
  An now my apps are amazing! http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/ http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/
- raldi 14y ago
  Meanwhile, my iPad 1 will never get iOS 6, even though they were top-of-the-line just 14 months prior to its announcement.
  - thedrbrian 14y ago
    But the iPad was released 30 months ago.
    - artsrc 14y ago
      Released? Are you saying never buy any Apple product except on the week of their launch? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad Jobs unveiled the iPad 2 at a March 2, 2011
- darkstalker 14y ago
  But Android 2.3 is more functional than iOS6, even without rooting.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  Which is a feature that came from Android. Next you're going to be telling me how cool you are because you can install and update apps over the WiFi. Hey, how's that Facetime over 3G/4G? Hope you're not on AT&T.
ck2 14y ago
They are not stuck at all. If they had bought an apple, microsoft or blackberry phone they would have been stuck. But because they are on an open source android device they have cyanogenmod which is even better than stock and either has or has coming ICS for their model. This is pretty revolutionary for mobile devices where you no longer are slaved to the manufacturer. Credit to google?
- reaganing 14y ago
  This provides that you're a) a nerd, b) comfortable voiding your warranty by rooting the phone and c) that your phone is even popular enough for there to be things like Cyanogenmod to install on it. Sure, I did that with my HTC Incredible, but I shouldn't have had too and most people won't.
  - inportb 14y ago
    You don't need to be a nerd; you only need access to someone you trust who would do it for you. And plenty of folks wait until their warranty runs out before modifying the OS.
    - micampe 14y ago
      how long until the updated version of this? http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/388b/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/388b/
  - shardling 14y ago
    Sure, but regular folk don't seem to be up in arms over the lack of updates.
- coopdog 14y ago
  Actually the people who installed the last motorola patches actually had the ability to flash their phone removed with that patch, so they can't even install cyanogenmod.
- mdasen 14y ago
  CyanogenMod doesn't exist for the Motorola Photon. It's great to say that open source means you have the power, but most people can't reverse-engineer a driver. In fact, it seems like none of the newer, popular Android devices are supported by CyanogenMod. Looking through the Android phones from the top three American carriers, I see: Motorola: RAZR M, RAZR MAXX, RAZR, Photon Q 4G LTE, ADMIRAL, Atrix HD Samsung: Galaxy S III, Galaxy Stellar, Stratosphere, Droid Charge, Galaxy Nexus, Conquer 4G, Replenish, Transform Ultra, Galaxy Victory, Galaxy S II (Sprint), Galaxy Note, Galaxy Exhilarate, Galaxy S II Skyrocket, Captivate Glide, Rugby Smart LG: Intuition, Lucid, Spectrum, Enlighten, Optimus Elite, Optimus S, Viper 4G LTE, Escape, Nitro HD HTC: Incredible 4G LTE, Rhyme, Rezound, Hero, One X, Vivid Pantech: Marauder, Breakout, Flex, Burst, Pocket Casio: G'zOne Commando Kyocera: Rise, Milano ZTE: Fury Sony: Xperia ion That's a list of every Android phone offered by the big four American carriers. There isn't a single device for Sprint or Verizon (accounting for over half the market) that CyanogenMod supports. With AT&T, you're limited to the Galaxy S II Skyrocket (and, really, you'd want the S III). There's also not a device released in 2012 that CyanogenMod supports. CyanogenMod gave me a workable system at a time when Samsung abandoned my device having never fixed major bugs. However, with newer devices, CyanogenMod seems to be slipping behind. If you're buying a nice Android device today and putting out $200, you're getting something like a Galaxy S III, a One X, or a RAZR M and it isn't clear that you'll be getting much support for your device (from the manufacturer, carrier, Google, or third parties). I bought into Android with high hopes. I understand how crappy Apple's closed model is. However, Android is making you beholden to the device manufacturer and your carrier in the same way iPhone users are beholden to Apple - unless you can reverse engineer device drivers. I know, in theory, you could hire someone or whatnot, but in practice Apple supports their devices for many years while Android phones may never see updates. Buying an Android phone has to be a purchase where you assume you won't even get an OS that exists today unless it's pre-loaded on the phone. Android manufacturers bought themselves a year of "but it's going to change" when they made the pledge. That pledge fell through as soon as it came time to actually provide the upgrades. Saying that they aren't stuck is somewhat akin to saying that poor people could just go out and become rich. Sure, in theory, there are always opportunities and whatnot, but it just isn't that easy. In reality, Google didn't free us, but tethered us to manufacturers that care less and carriers that are even worse. If Google were to be credited here, I think they should have insisted on a model where device manufacturers release drivers (ala Windows) so that users could install Android from any source. Even better would be to have those drivers be open source so that users could update them (providing updates is going to be easier than reverse engineering). That would have led to real options.
azharcs 14y ago
HTC did the same with their HTC Desire phones. I own a HTC Desire HD and I regret buying an Android phone as the only update I received was 2.3 with their Sense UI crap-ware. I've lost faith in Android ecosystem with early users being denied new features and security updates because they want users to upgrade to newer phones.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I have exactly the same experience with my HTC. I was actually very happy with it when I bought it, for the first few months. The battery life wasn't great but it was tolerable and the UI was simple and responsive. A few months back I got an update, which I hoped would give me a new version of Android with some extra useful features. Instead all I got was a ton of bloat and crap which made everything harder to use, slower and the battery lasts about 1/2 what it used to. Naturally it doesn't let you turn this crap off.
viseztrance 14y ago
The first company to ensure constant android updates for a decent amount of time (ex. 3 years) is sure to make a fortune even if they don't have the best phones. You may argue that it will still take months to upgrade, but that should be OK given that you're pretty much guaranteed you'll get an upgrade (well, hypothetically speaking).
- Kylekramer 14y ago
  I think the relative poor sales of Nexus devices proves that a fortune isn't really a guarantee if a company ensured updates. The amount of people who care about updates aren't enough to keep a business profitable.
- desas 14y ago
  Two years would be plenty, most contract lengths in the UK are for 18 months or two years, people expect to be getting a new phone that is up.
- orangecat 14y ago
  The first company to ensure constant android updates for a decent amount of time (ex. 3 years) is sure to make a fortune Unfortunately, most users seem to not care. If they did, there would be way more Nexus devices sold.
michaelhoffman 14y ago
I'm surprised that Motorola isn't facing a class action lawsuit yet.
- adamc 14y ago
  I hate to say it but that might be the right solution. They sold phones under false pretenses, so it would be reasonable to attempt restitution for that.
- wtracy 14y ago
  Indeed, that would have a lot more teeth than FTC complaints and threats to boycott.
adamc 14y ago
Right now, the only sane expectation to have with most android phones is that the version of Android you buy it with is what you get (unless you are able/willing to install your own mod). That's definitely a downside compared to iOS, but most Android phones are a lot cheaper, which helps compensate for it.
csmatt 14y ago
There's really no reason for this to happen with so many excellent community roms. Open source is a give and take. Motorola and others could most likely keep their promises if they started with a community rom and focused on QA. Also, Android needs a better method of updating the os that is more in line with how apple allows updates through iTunes.
Zigurd 14y ago
In May, Google announced the expansion of the Nexus branding to multiple OEM partners simultaneously. LG has recently shown off a Nexus phone, and one can expect more such announcements. Nexus now resembles Microsoft's "Signature" branding for craplet-free PCs. All reasonably recent Nexus devices get upgrades directly from Google, much like iOS devices. Also, not all OEM extensions are evil. Samsung's mobile device management extensions can be very useful in some use cases. If only we could get such extensions a la carte.
zunky 14y ago
"Soni admitted that the company wasn't quite there yet. But he believes the decision to cut off some upgrades would position the company to meet its future commitments." Bad business practice. Keep this up and you won't have any customers who would want to touch your "future" products. People are not that dumb. Some actually do research on a company's reputation before buying their products and others, well......they just don't forget when they were screwed over.
- prodigal_erik 14y ago
  I can only assume he's talking about commitments to vendors or carriers, rather than customers who obviously need to discount anything they may say.
nradov 14y ago
Anyone who was cheated by Motorola should sue them for the price of the phone in small claims court. Motorola might be able to weasel out and win the case depending on the actual language of what they promised. But if enough customers sue them it will create a PR nightmare and major legal expense to the extent that they will be forced to reverse their decision.
- cma 14y ago
  You might have a case for promissory estoppel if you bought one after they claimed they would upgrade. If you bought one before? Not so much.
- guelo 14y ago
  It feels like something the FTC should get involved with, false advertising.
nja 14y ago
It seems like this happens a lot in the Android world. HTC/Verizon recently postponed plans to upgrade the Thunderbolt to ICS: http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/09/26/htc-thunderbolt-ice-cream-sandwich-situation-is-unacceptable/ http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/09/26/htc-thunderbolt-ice-...

80 points by iProject 14y ago

He said it was a resourcing issue, they didn't have the resources to patch every phone and considered every option. Except, it seems... paying for more resources? I'm just glad to be on a Galaxy Nexus with OTA updates direct from Google. Even then the version I was on was configured not to receive OTA updates as it was a Nexus Samsung ROM not a Nexus Google ROM. It took reflashing the Google image using community tools, something that is mostly not possible for most of the population. I suppose the only solution is greater awareness of the issue, to increase demand for better support

StavrosK 14y ago
I don't understand the problem. Why can we upgrade our computers' OSes so easily, while it's impossible to do it for phones? Don't they have drivers for all their parts so you can just plug them in the OS's API and have the newer versions just work? Why does it take so much work?
- buster 14y ago
  Apparently the driver situation is much different on phones. All the different SoCs need extra drivers, the graphic chips, the display, everything. It's very different on a PC (where you may have upgrade problems as well, if you have hardware that has no drivers for your new OS) and it's especially easy for a Mac.
  - zurn 14y ago
    And that part of Android is largely closed source, so phone vendors are on the mercy of chipset makers, who might not have updating drivers for previous generation hardware as their most important mission.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    Plus, I think Google made a terrible mistake in the beginning by not asking manufacturers to support the drivers for their phones for 2 years or more. It would've been even better if they convinced them to make all drivers open source, although that might've been a lot harder to do.
- eternalban 14y ago
  It is a solved problem, as you point out. So it's just business. Symmetry does break when we consider that you don't purchase your PC after consulting and getting permission from your internet provider. Imagine that .. Now the funny thing - insert haha here -- is that the trend seems to be for getting herded onto small, mobile, and ultimately task focused devices and ubiquitous computing. This topic really has significant social bearing far outside its current utilitarian scope. Now lets meet the happy tuple: (Utilitarian, Totalitarian)
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > Don't they have drivers for all their parts There are some differences here: PC components are usually long lived and we expect them to last a couple major system upgrades. This expectation is relatively new with embedded electronics, where the norm has been not to update software at all (think about updating your washing machine firmware). Therefore, the idea of revising a device driver for a component that's already shipping is somewhat alien for a hardware maker - all their resources are devoted to the next generation and few, if any, software improvements trickle back to the previous-gen components. Another factor is driver quality. A lot of the device driver code I saw is full with embarrassing hacks needed to cope with hardware problems and looks a lot like development ended as soon as it worked, without much regard to future maintanability, or even commenting the hacks. Looks a lot like design engineers preferring green wires to correct PCB mistakes while repair engineers favoring the use of yellow ones.
  - DeepDuh 14y ago
    Yet Apple manages that part of the deal reasonably well. I'd say what's missing is an industry device standard a la IBM PC, such that drivers can be decoupled from the overall device development. It seems like low to midrange smartphones have experienced a race to the bottom before they were even in the position to lower the spending on software integration. I just hope that consumers are aware of this and choose devices that are based on standards set by the OS developer, such as Nexus and Windows Phone. Google has some homework to do in terms of the Nexus brand awareness if you ask me.
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      > what's missing is an industry device standard a la IBM PC I fear that. Before the IBM PC clones the personal computer market was fragmented, but evolution was very fast. In the mid-80's, we had computers and capabilities x86 PCs would only gain in the mid-90's (for instance, plug-and-play expansion slots were present in the Apple II). Amigas had preemptive multitasking and Ataris pushed the price of 32 bit computing to impressive lows. Acorn introduced a RISC-based PC whose processor now powers just about everything that needs to process information around you. Today, most personal computers are descendants of the IBM PC and employ an extended version of its horrid instruction set (the x86 was Intel's plan-B at the time - i432 was plan-A) running a matrioska of computers with something similar to an IBM 5150 at the core. The three major OSs in use on PCs are derived from 60's technologies, two from Unix, one from VMS. We deserve more.
- nmridul 14y ago
  Its more of a business decision me thinks. A lot will not buy the latest phone Model if they could update the software on their 2 year old phone that would give them all the features So, Samsung will be able to sell fewer Galaxy 3 if a user could update the Galaxy 2. (Even if the new OS version is slow on an older hardware).
mtgx 14y ago
Another solution for lack of resources would be reducing complexity. They need to release fewer models a year and promote only those throughout the year. Of course they need a lot more resources for upgrades if they release a different model every month. Rumors say that starting with Android 4.2, and especially with Android 5.0, Google will start upgrading all "Nexus certified" devices (and everyone can make such a device, if they want, under strict rules). I really hope that's true, and I hope the market starts moving towards those devices rather than regular Android ones so it incentivizes manufacturers to build them. I also hope Google intends to upgrade them for 2 years since the phone's launch. http://androidandme.com/2012/10/news/rumor-android-4-2-to-feature-project-roadrunner-new-play-store-customization-center-enhanced-google-now/ http://androidandme.com/2012/10/news/rumor-android-4-2-to-fe... Reducing complexity could also be done if Google released only one major upgrade per year, instead of two. That way it's much less work for manufacturers, too, and most users don't have to be 2 versions behind all the time (like most are on Gingerbread right now). Hopefully Google intends to only release Android 5.0 next year, and that's it. It should also make it easier for developers, who don't have to worry about 5 different API versions at once.
- msh 14y ago
  Or maybe different phones with same internals (see SonyE's Xperia 2011 line which all got ICS updates).
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > They need to release fewer models a year Remember you (or me) are not their clients. The telcos we buy phones from are and they want more models they can push. Also, there are certification issues on different markets. For instance, it's illegal to use an iPhone 5 in Brazil because it wasn't approved by the regulatory agency. One way Motorola can get around this would be to make the phones more modular, with models differing in peripheral components (keypads, LCDs, cameras), keeping the computing engine consistent and manage building images with component-specific flags. One way Google could step in to help would be to make less updates to Android core and release more frequent updates of their userland apps (GMail, Maps, Plus etc). I get JB has better rendering performance on current hardware, but I can live without a performance enhancement for a phone I already have if, in return, I get something like Google Now. And finally, telcos can somehow mitigate the problem by making the phone purchase experience better. If the experience of upgrading a phone were enjoyable, people would do it more often, keep themselves locked in their contracts and just be happy about it.
justin66 14y ago
> He said it was a resourcing issue, they didn't have the resources to patch every phone and considered every option. Except, it seems... paying for more resources? Yeah, and this is the part that's so strange. Attach a dollar figure to how much it would have cost to broaden the list of updated phones. Then consider that Google/Motorola is basically drowning in money and that the dollar figure is just a rounding error. Google buying Motorola was always kind of mysterious. Now it's more mysterious. Google, why would you do something like that if you weren't going to, at a minimum, make sure that they support your stuff as well as possible?
- antidoh 14y ago
  They bought Motorola for their patents. Patents are strategic, employees and devices are tactical.

tomjen3 14y ago

Stuff like this is androids biggest issue. My HTC was supposed to get 2.3, but despite their promises they never did that.

darklajid 14y ago
Same thing for me with HTC ('Hero'.. Really?), and no different now with LG (P990 / Optimus 2x). Update to ICS was promised a year ago. Look at link like this (or any LG source on the net that allows comments) to see angry (and .. childish) people: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=334420639902596 https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=334420639902596 So - apart from buying a Nexus device (or maybe a Samsung?), it's the same bullshit w/ every manufacturer, I guess.
- dman 14y ago
  Same story with Samsung. Droid Charge owners are stuck on Gingerbread.
tarkin2 14y ago
If your HTC is a Desire, it did get it, but it wasn't OTR and you had to download something from their support site to get it working. Hardly ideal, I know. Not sure about the other models.

raverbashing 14y ago

You know what Users can cry me a river. Motorola has repeatedly broken their promises. This is not the first time a new phone is not upgraded. I won't touch a Motorola phone, yes, even with Google. I may opt for a Android phone next, but other manufacturers have presented more upgrade options. Incompetence runs deeply in some organizations This is a big sore thumb for Android, something that Google should really enforce against the big vendors.

SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
Yep. My first thought was "is anyone actually surprised by this?"

kmfrk 14y ago

If they advertised this in conjunction with their devices, I imagine consumers would be able to get their consumer protection agency involved because of false advertising.

navs 14y ago

This is what keeps me from android. I'm sure there are other android phones out there that receive updates but until I do a fair amount of research I won't know for sure. My days of carefully researching device purchases are behind me. I just want to walk into a store, buy a new phone and know for the next 2-3 years I'll get all the latest updates. EDIT: Android phone recommendations?

div 14y ago
This is what drove me away from Android and just made me get an iPhone. Much like you, I'm done with researching what device to get for weeks, finally settling on one (with the necessary compromises) and then get shafted anyway. Plenty happy with my iPhone so far, I may reconsider Android once the no-upgrade, crappy custom skin, comes with crapware problems it's riddled with are resolved.
- twism 14y ago
  It's been resolved. Get the phone sold by Google themselves. (GSM Galaxy Nexus) from the Google Play Store. You wouldn't get a Motorola phone with iOS on it (in the event Motorola happened to get their hands on iOS source)?
  - woadwarrior01 14y ago
    Are you sure? This was my reasoning when I bought a Nexus S in early 2011 just after it was released. It came with Gingerbread. Later, at the end of the year, they released the ICS update, and then subsequently was blocked. One of my friends got it, but I never got it (until I downloaded the ROM from somewhere and manually updated). The official line was that this was due to poor battery backup, but I felt the battery backup time improved after the update. Eventually I ended up selling it for 100$ and buying a iPhone 4s. Clearly, all hardware manufacturers have an incentive to not give updates in order to compel people to buy their latest devices. It's just that Apple plays a slightly different game by giving updates, which make your device slower and slower with every upgrade until about 18-24 months later, you just fork out cash to buy their latest device.

protolif 14y ago

"But Android is such an open platform! /QQ" Meanwhile, my iPad 2 just asked me if I wanted to upgrade to iOS6. It did it over wifi, and the whole thing took maybe half an hour.

JBiserkov 14y ago
An now my apps are amazing! http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/ http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/
raldi 14y ago
Meanwhile, my iPad 1 will never get iOS 6, even though they were top-of-the-line just 14 months prior to its announcement.
- thedrbrian 14y ago
  But the iPad was released 30 months ago.
  - artsrc 14y ago
    Released? Are you saying never buy any Apple product except on the week of their launch? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad Jobs unveiled the iPad 2 at a March 2, 2011
darkstalker 14y ago
But Android 2.3 is more functional than iOS6, even without rooting.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
Which is a feature that came from Android. Next you're going to be telling me how cool you are because you can install and update apps over the WiFi. Hey, how's that Facetime over 3G/4G? Hope you're not on AT&T.

ck2 14y ago

They are not stuck at all. If they had bought an apple, microsoft or blackberry phone they would have been stuck. But because they are on an open source android device they have cyanogenmod which is even better than stock and either has or has coming ICS for their model. This is pretty revolutionary for mobile devices where you no longer are slaved to the manufacturer. Credit to google?

reaganing 14y ago
This provides that you're a) a nerd, b) comfortable voiding your warranty by rooting the phone and c) that your phone is even popular enough for there to be things like Cyanogenmod to install on it. Sure, I did that with my HTC Incredible, but I shouldn't have had too and most people won't.
- inportb 14y ago
  You don't need to be a nerd; you only need access to someone you trust who would do it for you. And plenty of folks wait until their warranty runs out before modifying the OS.
  - micampe 14y ago
    how long until the updated version of this? http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/388b/ http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/388b/
- shardling 14y ago
  Sure, but regular folk don't seem to be up in arms over the lack of updates.
coopdog 14y ago
Actually the people who installed the last motorola patches actually had the ability to flash their phone removed with that patch, so they can't even install cyanogenmod.
mdasen 14y ago
CyanogenMod doesn't exist for the Motorola Photon. It's great to say that open source means you have the power, but most people can't reverse-engineer a driver. In fact, it seems like none of the newer, popular Android devices are supported by CyanogenMod. Looking through the Android phones from the top three American carriers, I see: Motorola: RAZR M, RAZR MAXX, RAZR, Photon Q 4G LTE, ADMIRAL, Atrix HD Samsung: Galaxy S III, Galaxy Stellar, Stratosphere, Droid Charge, Galaxy Nexus, Conquer 4G, Replenish, Transform Ultra, Galaxy Victory, Galaxy S II (Sprint), Galaxy Note, Galaxy Exhilarate, Galaxy S II Skyrocket, Captivate Glide, Rugby Smart LG: Intuition, Lucid, Spectrum, Enlighten, Optimus Elite, Optimus S, Viper 4G LTE, Escape, Nitro HD HTC: Incredible 4G LTE, Rhyme, Rezound, Hero, One X, Vivid Pantech: Marauder, Breakout, Flex, Burst, Pocket Casio: G'zOne Commando Kyocera: Rise, Milano ZTE: Fury Sony: Xperia ion That's a list of every Android phone offered by the big four American carriers. There isn't a single device for Sprint or Verizon (accounting for over half the market) that CyanogenMod supports. With AT&T, you're limited to the Galaxy S II Skyrocket (and, really, you'd want the S III). There's also not a device released in 2012 that CyanogenMod supports. CyanogenMod gave me a workable system at a time when Samsung abandoned my device having never fixed major bugs. However, with newer devices, CyanogenMod seems to be slipping behind. If you're buying a nice Android device today and putting out $200, you're getting something like a Galaxy S III, a One X, or a RAZR M and it isn't clear that you'll be getting much support for your device (from the manufacturer, carrier, Google, or third parties). I bought into Android with high hopes. I understand how crappy Apple's closed model is. However, Android is making you beholden to the device manufacturer and your carrier in the same way iPhone users are beholden to Apple - unless you can reverse engineer device drivers. I know, in theory, you could hire someone or whatnot, but in practice Apple supports their devices for many years while Android phones may never see updates. Buying an Android phone has to be a purchase where you assume you won't even get an OS that exists today unless it's pre-loaded on the phone. Android manufacturers bought themselves a year of "but it's going to change" when they made the pledge. That pledge fell through as soon as it came time to actually provide the upgrades. Saying that they aren't stuck is somewhat akin to saying that poor people could just go out and become rich. Sure, in theory, there are always opportunities and whatnot, but it just isn't that easy. In reality, Google didn't free us, but tethered us to manufacturers that care less and carriers that are even worse. If Google were to be credited here, I think they should have insisted on a model where device manufacturers release drivers (ala Windows) so that users could install Android from any source. Even better would be to have those drivers be open source so that users could update them (providing updates is going to be easier than reverse engineering). That would have led to real options.

azharcs 14y ago

HTC did the same with their HTC Desire phones. I own a HTC Desire HD and I regret buying an Android phone as the only update I received was 2.3 with their Sense UI crap-ware. I've lost faith in Android ecosystem with early users being denied new features and security updates because they want users to upgrade to newer phones.

jiggy2011 14y ago
I have exactly the same experience with my HTC. I was actually very happy with it when I bought it, for the first few months. The battery life wasn't great but it was tolerable and the UI was simple and responsive. A few months back I got an update, which I hoped would give me a new version of Android with some extra useful features. Instead all I got was a ton of bloat and crap which made everything harder to use, slower and the battery lasts about 1/2 what it used to. Naturally it doesn't let you turn this crap off.

viseztrance 14y ago

The first company to ensure constant android updates for a decent amount of time (ex. 3 years) is sure to make a fortune even if they don't have the best phones. You may argue that it will still take months to upgrade, but that should be OK given that you're pretty much guaranteed you'll get an upgrade (well, hypothetically speaking).

Kylekramer 14y ago
I think the relative poor sales of Nexus devices proves that a fortune isn't really a guarantee if a company ensured updates. The amount of people who care about updates aren't enough to keep a business profitable.
desas 14y ago
Two years would be plenty, most contract lengths in the UK are for 18 months or two years, people expect to be getting a new phone that is up.
orangecat 14y ago
The first company to ensure constant android updates for a decent amount of time (ex. 3 years) is sure to make a fortune Unfortunately, most users seem to not care. If they did, there would be way more Nexus devices sold.

michaelhoffman 14y ago

I'm surprised that Motorola isn't facing a class action lawsuit yet.

adamc 14y ago
I hate to say it but that might be the right solution. They sold phones under false pretenses, so it would be reasonable to attempt restitution for that.
wtracy 14y ago
Indeed, that would have a lot more teeth than FTC complaints and threats to boycott.

adamc 14y ago

Right now, the only sane expectation to have with most android phones is that the version of Android you buy it with is what you get (unless you are able/willing to install your own mod). That's definitely a downside compared to iOS, but most Android phones are a lot cheaper, which helps compensate for it.

csmatt 14y ago

There's really no reason for this to happen with so many excellent community roms. Open source is a give and take. Motorola and others could most likely keep their promises if they started with a community rom and focused on QA. Also, Android needs a better method of updating the os that is more in line with how apple allows updates through iTunes.

Zigurd 14y ago

In May, Google announced the expansion of the Nexus branding to multiple OEM partners simultaneously. LG has recently shown off a Nexus phone, and one can expect more such announcements. Nexus now resembles Microsoft's "Signature" branding for craplet-free PCs. All reasonably recent Nexus devices get upgrades directly from Google, much like iOS devices. Also, not all OEM extensions are evil. Samsung's mobile device management extensions can be very useful in some use cases. If only we could get such extensions a la carte.

zunky 14y ago

"Soni admitted that the company wasn't quite there yet. But he believes the decision to cut off some upgrades would position the company to meet its future commitments." Bad business practice. Keep this up and you won't have any customers who would want to touch your "future" products. People are not that dumb. Some actually do research on a company's reputation before buying their products and others, well......they just don't forget when they were screwed over.

prodigal_erik 14y ago
I can only assume he's talking about commitments to vendors or carriers, rather than customers who obviously need to discount anything they may say.

nradov 14y ago

Anyone who was cheated by Motorola should sue them for the price of the phone in small claims court. Motorola might be able to weasel out and win the case depending on the actual language of what they promised. But if enough customers sue them it will create a PR nightmare and major legal expense to the extent that they will be forced to reverse their decision.

cma 14y ago
You might have a case for promissory estoppel if you bought one after they claimed they would upgrade. If you bought one before? Not so much.
guelo 14y ago
It feels like something the FTC should get involved with, false advertising.

nja 14y ago

It seems like this happens a lot in the Android world. HTC/Verizon recently postponed plans to upgrade the Thunderbolt to ICS: http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/09/26/htc-thunderbolt-ice-cream-sandwich-situation-is-unacceptable/ http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/09/26/htc-thunderbolt-ice-...