4 ms·

It's not just about "building" ... who is going to maintain all this new sub-par code pushed to production every day? Who is going to patch all bugs, edge case

by vb-8448 10mo ago

It's not just about "building" ... who is going to maintain all this new sub-par code pushed to production every day? Who is going to patch all bugs, edge cases and security vulnerabilities?

soco 10mo ago
The theory goes very simple, you tell the agent to patch the bug. Now the practice though...
- fullstackwife 10mo ago
  yeah, in practice: would you like to onboard a Boeing 747 where some of the bugs were patched by some agents, what is the percentage risk of malfunction you are going to accept as a passenger?
  - emodendroket 10mo ago
    No. But most software products are nowhere near that sensitive and very few of them are developed with the level of caution and rigor appropriate for a safety-critical component.
  - TuringNYC 10mo ago
    >> yeah, in practice: would you like to onboard a Boeing 747 where some of the bugs were patched by some agents, In this case, the traditional human process hasn't gone well either.
    - dboreham 10mo ago
      The bugs were mostly caused by MBAs, who one assumes will remain.
    - geon 10mo ago
      It is working great as long as it is adhered to and budgeted.
    - fullstackwife 10mo ago
      human process is the understanding that the mistakes will make people die
- Havoc 10mo ago
  You are a senior expert. SENIOR EXPERT :D [0] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/64TNGvCoegE https://www.youtube.com/shorts/64TNGvCoegE
sdoering 10mo ago
I happily got rid of a legacy application (lost the pitch, another agency now must deal with the shit) I inherited as a somewhat technically savvy person about a year ago. It was built by real people. Not a single line of AI slop in it. It was the most fragile crap I had ever the misfortune to witness. Even in my wildest vibe coding a prototype moments I was not able to get the AI to produce that amount of anti patterns, bad shit and code that would have had Hitchcock running. I think we would be shocked to see what kind of human slop out there is running in production. The scale might change, but at least in this example, if I had rebuilt the app purely by vibe coding the code quality and the security of the code would actually have improved. Even with the lowest vibe coding effort thinkable. I am not in any way condoning (is this the right word) bad practices, or shipping vibe code into prod without very, very thorough review. Far from it. I am just trying to provide a counter point to the narrative, that at least in the medium sized business I got to know in my time consulting/working in agencies, I have seen quite a metric ton of slop, that would make coding agents shiver.
- geon 10mo ago
  The argument isn’t that all slop is AI, but that all AI is slop.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - baq 10mo ago
    Turns out building enterprise software has more in common with generating slop than not.
- vb-8448 10mo ago
  AI doesn't overcome the limits of the one who is giving the input, like in pre-ai era SW, if the input sucks the output sucks. What changed is the speed: AI and vibe coding just gave a turboboost to all you described. The amount of code will go parabolic (maybe it's already parabolic) and, in the mid-term, we will need even more swe/sre/devops/security/ecc to keep up.
- 10mo ago
mountainriver 10mo ago
I hear this argument all the time but it seems to leave out code reviews
- nsxwolf 10mo ago
  In teams of high performers who have built a lot of mutual trust, code reviews are mostly a formality and a stop gap against the big, obvious accidental blunders. "LGTM!" I do not know or trust the agents that are putting out all this code, and the code review process is very different. Watching the Copilot code review plugin complain about Agent code on top of it all has been quite an experience.
- bagacrap 10mo ago
  like a vibe coder knows what a code review is, or an LLM knows how to take feedback
Havoc 10mo ago
Nobody. In fact looking at the vibecoders enthusiasm for serverless I’m expecting a sharp spike in surprise cloud bills never mind thinking about edge case

by vb-8448 10mo ago

It's not just about "building" ... who is going to maintain all this new sub-par code pushed to production every day? Who is going to patch all bugs, edge cases and security vulnerabilities?

soco 10mo ago

The theory goes very simple, you tell the agent to patch the bug. Now the practice though...

fullstackwife 10mo ago
yeah, in practice: would you like to onboard a Boeing 747 where some of the bugs were patched by some agents, what is the percentage risk of malfunction you are going to accept as a passenger?
- emodendroket 10mo ago
  No. But most software products are nowhere near that sensitive and very few of them are developed with the level of caution and rigor appropriate for a safety-critical component.
- TuringNYC 10mo ago
  >> yeah, in practice: would you like to onboard a Boeing 747 where some of the bugs were patched by some agents, In this case, the traditional human process hasn't gone well either.
  - dboreham 10mo ago
    The bugs were mostly caused by MBAs, who one assumes will remain.
  - geon 10mo ago
    It is working great as long as it is adhered to and budgeted.
  - fullstackwife 10mo ago
    human process is the understanding that the mistakes will make people die
Havoc 10mo ago
You are a senior expert. SENIOR EXPERT :D [0] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/64TNGvCoegE https://www.youtube.com/shorts/64TNGvCoegE

sdoering 10mo ago

I happily got rid of a legacy application (lost the pitch, another agency now must deal with the shit) I inherited as a somewhat technically savvy person about a year ago. It was built by real people. Not a single line of AI slop in it. It was the most fragile crap I had ever the misfortune to witness. Even in my wildest vibe coding a prototype moments I was not able to get the AI to produce that amount of anti patterns, bad shit and code that would have had Hitchcock running. I think we would be shocked to see what kind of human slop out there is running in production. The scale might change, but at least in this example, if I had rebuilt the app purely by vibe coding the code quality and the security of the code would actually have improved. Even with the lowest vibe coding effort thinkable. I am not in any way condoning (is this the right word) bad practices, or shipping vibe code into prod without very, very thorough review. Far from it. I am just trying to provide a counter point to the narrative, that at least in the medium sized business I got to know in my time consulting/working in agencies, I have seen quite a metric ton of slop, that would make coding agents shiver.

geon 10mo ago
The argument isn’t that all slop is AI, but that all AI is slop.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- baq 10mo ago
  Turns out building enterprise software has more in common with generating slop than not.
vb-8448 10mo ago
AI doesn't overcome the limits of the one who is giving the input, like in pre-ai era SW, if the input sucks the output sucks. What changed is the speed: AI and vibe coding just gave a turboboost to all you described. The amount of code will go parabolic (maybe it's already parabolic) and, in the mid-term, we will need even more swe/sre/devops/security/ecc to keep up.
10mo ago

mountainriver 10mo ago

I hear this argument all the time but it seems to leave out code reviews

nsxwolf 10mo ago
In teams of high performers who have built a lot of mutual trust, code reviews are mostly a formality and a stop gap against the big, obvious accidental blunders. "LGTM!" I do not know or trust the agents that are putting out all this code, and the code review process is very different. Watching the Copilot code review plugin complain about Agent code on top of it all has been quite an experience.
bagacrap 10mo ago
like a vibe coder knows what a code review is, or an LLM knows how to take feedback

Havoc 10mo ago

Nobody. In fact looking at the vibecoders enthusiasm for serverless I’m expecting a sharp spike in surprise cloud bills never mind thinking about edge case