4 ms·

Tesla Optimus robot takes a suspicious tumble in new demo

68 points by LopRabbit 10mo ago

treetalker 10mo ago
Sub-Optimus was just worn out from its late night at E11EVEN.
LorenDB 10mo ago
All observations about teleoperation aside, it's just really funny to me how the robot appears to knock over the water bottles, throw its hands up in exasperation, and then give up and fall down. It somehow makes it feel more human.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- rasz 10mo ago
  >teleoperation aside ... feel more human umm, so ignoring it was operated by a human it acted surprisingly human like? :)
  - LorenDB 10mo ago
    Well, the human operator was just taking off a VR headset (and presumably forgot to deactivate the robot first). It just so happened to also look like the robot was fed up with life.
  - mike_hearn 10mo ago
    It might have been human operated, but it also might have just been copying its training data. A robot that properly supports being teleoperated wouldn't immediately fall over the moment someone deactivates a headset. Falling over is almost the worst thing a robot can do, you would trash a lot of prototypes and expensive lab equipment that way if they fell over every time an operator needed the toilet or to speak to someone. If you had such a bug that would be the very first thing you would fix. And it's not like making robots stay still whilst standing is a hard problem these days - there's no reason removing a headset should cause the robot to immediately deactivate. You'd also have to hypothesize about why the supposed Tesla teleoperator takes the headset off with people in front of him/her during a public demonstration, despite knowing that this would cause the robot to die on camera and for them to immediately get fired. I think it's just as plausible that the underlying VLA model is trained using teleoperation data generated by headset wearers, and just like LLMs it has some notion of a "stop token" intended for cases where it completed its mission. We've all seen LLMs try a few times to solve a problem, give up and declare victory even though it obviously didn't succeed. Presumably they learned that behavior from humans somewhere along the line. If VLA models have a similar issue then we would expect to see cases where it gets frustrated or mistakes failure for success, copies the "I am done with my mission" motion it saw from its trainers and then issues a stop token, meaning it stops sending signals to the motors and as a consequence immediately falls over. This would be expected for Tesla given that they've always been all-in on purely neural end-to-end operation. It would be most un-Tesla-like for there to be lots of hand crafted logic in these things. And as VLA models are pretty new, and partly based on LLM backbones, we would expect robotic VLA models to have the same flaws as LLMs do.
- LarsDu88 10mo ago
  I feel many folks are missing the forest for the trees. 1. Build robots to change the narrative around overpriced stock for EV company 2. Align with right wing politicians to eliminate illegal immigration. 3. If AI for robotics is solved, congrats, you eliminated the competition. 4. If AI doesn't pan out, congrats, all the firms relying on illegal immigrants can now buy your robots and have those same illegal immigrants teleoperate the robots from their home countries. Its like win win for amoral broligarchy
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
energy123 10mo ago
These will be hazardous to children.
- hintklb 10mo ago
  Ah yes, Think of the children! [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
  - NathanKP 10mo ago
    No. This is a real issue. If a robot is fully AI powered and doing what it does fully autonomously, then it has a very different risk profile compared to a teleoperated robot. For example, you can be fairly certain that given the current state of AI tech, an AI powered robot has no innate desire to creep on your kids, while a teleoperated robot could very well be operated remotely by a pedophile who is watching your kids through the robot cameras, or attempting to interact with them in some way using the robot itself. If you are allowing this robot device to exist in your home, around your valuables, and around the people you care for, then whether these robots operate fully autonomously, or whether a human operator is connecting via the robot is an extremely significant difference, that has very large safety consequences.
    - hintklb 10mo ago
      I actually agree with you on this. I think those robots are going to be a huge danger for society and everyone (not only children). But nonetheless I was pointing out that using the "Think of the children" as an argument is a push to emotions rather than a more rational thinking.
      - energy123 10mo ago
        Tip risk of furniture is a unique risk for children and is not abstract or far-fetched.
  - Zigurd 10mo ago
alsetmusic 10mo ago
> Even recently, Musk fought back against the notion that Tesla relies on teleoperation for its Optimus demonstration. He specified that a new demo of Optimus doing kung-fu was “AI, not tele-operated” The world's biggest liar, possibly. It's insane to me that laws and regulations haven't stopped him from lying to investors and the public, but that's the world in which we live.
- parineum 10mo ago
  The FCC would have a whole lot to say if he was lying about something like that at a publicly traded company.
  - lesuorac 10mo ago
    What would the FCC do? The SEC didn't even enforce the whole he can't run his twitter account punishment for tweeting that he took TSLA private at 420.
    - parineum 10mo ago
      Sorry, I meant SEC. Just search for "Musk SEC". He's been fined and sued already for similar statements. It's pretty illegal to lie about the capabilities of the products of a publicly held company. Just look at Nikola.
      - digitalPhonix 10mo ago
        That’s what lesuorac is saying. The SEC found he violated the rules for a publicly traded company... And then could do absolutely nothing about it to enforce the rules.
      - Gigachad 10mo ago
        He lies again and again. Occasionally gets a slap or a small fine. And then keeps doing it.
        10mo ago
NedF 10mo ago
[dead]
sidcool 10mo ago
Fred Lambert's blogs about Tesla are always critical and have been proven wrong many times. I would take it with a pinch of salt.
- thejazzman 10mo ago
  Can you elaborate? I read electrek pretty closely and if anything most of the time Tesla/Elon deny things only for it to be proven true shortly later Like many many times.. Genuinely like to spot what I missed
- moogly 10mo ago
  What should be taken with a pinch of salt? The video?
__patchbit__ 10mo ago
Looks consistent with the imagined Star Wars C-3PO behavior after doing booboo. Tesla AI viral inside joke?
ojo-rojo 10mo ago
I notice when its left hand came down there was a squirt of water from probably crushing water bottle. That makes me wonder how much force these robots can exert, and if they can accidentally hurt people.
- kh_hk 10mo ago
  Oh they definitely can. A friend of mine working with humanoid robots told me that kids running around their demo booths and wanting to hug their robots were a major stress factor on doing the demos. That, plus knowing it's your code what's running there.
- rsynnott 10mo ago
  > That makes me wonder how much force these robots can exert, and if they can accidentally hurt people. Definitely. This thing weighs 60kg. You don't want it to fall on you. (This is actually one of a number of things that makes me suspect that this isn't a real product or even intended to be a real product. It's too heavy and hard; it would simply not be safe for humans to be around. There are a couple of companies who seem to be gearing up to actually have some sort of limited public release of humanoid robots (generally on a "actually remote operated when doing stuff" basis); they're generally a good bit lighter and with soft coverings (though they still have disclaimers not to let them near kids).)

68 points by LopRabbit 10mo ago

Sub-Optimus was just worn out from its late night at E11EVEN.

All observations about teleoperation aside, it's just really funny to me how the robot appears to knock over the water bottles, throw its hands up in exasperation, and then give up and fall down. It somehow makes it feel more human.

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
rasz 10mo ago
>teleoperation aside ... feel more human umm, so ignoring it was operated by a human it acted surprisingly human like? :)
- LorenDB 10mo ago
  Well, the human operator was just taking off a VR headset (and presumably forgot to deactivate the robot first). It just so happened to also look like the robot was fed up with life.
- mike_hearn 10mo ago
  It might have been human operated, but it also might have just been copying its training data. A robot that properly supports being teleoperated wouldn't immediately fall over the moment someone deactivates a headset. Falling over is almost the worst thing a robot can do, you would trash a lot of prototypes and expensive lab equipment that way if they fell over every time an operator needed the toilet or to speak to someone. If you had such a bug that would be the very first thing you would fix. And it's not like making robots stay still whilst standing is a hard problem these days - there's no reason removing a headset should cause the robot to immediately deactivate. You'd also have to hypothesize about why the supposed Tesla teleoperator takes the headset off with people in front of him/her during a public demonstration, despite knowing that this would cause the robot to die on camera and for them to immediately get fired. I think it's just as plausible that the underlying VLA model is trained using teleoperation data generated by headset wearers, and just like LLMs it has some notion of a "stop token" intended for cases where it completed its mission. We've all seen LLMs try a few times to solve a problem, give up and declare victory even though it obviously didn't succeed. Presumably they learned that behavior from humans somewhere along the line. If VLA models have a similar issue then we would expect to see cases where it gets frustrated or mistakes failure for success, copies the "I am done with my mission" motion it saw from its trainers and then issues a stop token, meaning it stops sending signals to the motors and as a consequence immediately falls over. This would be expected for Tesla given that they've always been all-in on purely neural end-to-end operation. It would be most un-Tesla-like for there to be lots of hand crafted logic in these things. And as VLA models are pretty new, and partly based on LLM backbones, we would expect robotic VLA models to have the same flaws as LLMs do.
LarsDu88 10mo ago
I feel many folks are missing the forest for the trees. 1. Build robots to change the narrative around overpriced stock for EV company 2. Align with right wing politicians to eliminate illegal immigration. 3. If AI for robotics is solved, congrats, you eliminated the competition. 4. If AI doesn't pan out, congrats, all the firms relying on illegal immigrants can now buy your robots and have those same illegal immigrants teleoperate the robots from their home countries. Its like win win for amoral broligarchy

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

energy123 10mo ago

These will be hazardous to children.

hintklb 10mo ago
Ah yes, Think of the children! [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
- NathanKP 10mo ago
  No. This is a real issue. If a robot is fully AI powered and doing what it does fully autonomously, then it has a very different risk profile compared to a teleoperated robot. For example, you can be fairly certain that given the current state of AI tech, an AI powered robot has no innate desire to creep on your kids, while a teleoperated robot could very well be operated remotely by a pedophile who is watching your kids through the robot cameras, or attempting to interact with them in some way using the robot itself. If you are allowing this robot device to exist in your home, around your valuables, and around the people you care for, then whether these robots operate fully autonomously, or whether a human operator is connecting via the robot is an extremely significant difference, that has very large safety consequences.
  - hintklb 10mo ago
    I actually agree with you on this. I think those robots are going to be a huge danger for society and everyone (not only children). But nonetheless I was pointing out that using the "Think of the children" as an argument is a push to emotions rather than a more rational thinking.
    - energy123 10mo ago
      Tip risk of furniture is a unique risk for children and is not abstract or far-fetched.
- Zigurd 10mo ago

alsetmusic 10mo ago

> Even recently, Musk fought back against the notion that Tesla relies on teleoperation for its Optimus demonstration. He specified that a new demo of Optimus doing kung-fu was “AI, not tele-operated” The world's biggest liar, possibly. It's insane to me that laws and regulations haven't stopped him from lying to investors and the public, but that's the world in which we live.

parineum 10mo ago
The FCC would have a whole lot to say if he was lying about something like that at a publicly traded company.
- lesuorac 10mo ago
  What would the FCC do? The SEC didn't even enforce the whole he can't run his twitter account punishment for tweeting that he took TSLA private at 420.
  - parineum 10mo ago
    Sorry, I meant SEC. Just search for "Musk SEC". He's been fined and sued already for similar statements. It's pretty illegal to lie about the capabilities of the products of a publicly held company. Just look at Nikola.
    - digitalPhonix 10mo ago
      That’s what lesuorac is saying. The SEC found he violated the rules for a publicly traded company... And then could do absolutely nothing about it to enforce the rules.
    - Gigachad 10mo ago
      He lies again and again. Occasionally gets a slap or a small fine. And then keeps doing it.
      - 10mo ago

NedF 10mo ago

[dead]

sidcool 10mo ago

Fred Lambert's blogs about Tesla are always critical and have been proven wrong many times. I would take it with a pinch of salt.

thejazzman 10mo ago
Can you elaborate? I read electrek pretty closely and if anything most of the time Tesla/Elon deny things only for it to be proven true shortly later Like many many times.. Genuinely like to spot what I missed
moogly 10mo ago
What should be taken with a pinch of salt? The video?

__patchbit__ 10mo ago

Looks consistent with the imagined Star Wars C-3PO behavior after doing booboo. Tesla AI viral inside joke?

ojo-rojo 10mo ago

I notice when its left hand came down there was a squirt of water from probably crushing water bottle. That makes me wonder how much force these robots can exert, and if they can accidentally hurt people.

kh_hk 10mo ago
Oh they definitely can. A friend of mine working with humanoid robots told me that kids running around their demo booths and wanting to hug their robots were a major stress factor on doing the demos. That, plus knowing it's your code what's running there.
rsynnott 10mo ago
> That makes me wonder how much force these robots can exert, and if they can accidentally hurt people. Definitely. This thing weighs 60kg. You don't want it to fall on you. (This is actually one of a number of things that makes me suspect that this isn't a real product or even intended to be a real product. It's too heavy and hard; it would simply not be safe for humans to be around. There are a couple of companies who seem to be gearing up to actually have some sort of limited public release of humanoid robots (generally on a "actually remote operated when doing stuff" basis); they're generally a good bit lighter and with soft coverings (though they still have disclaimers not to let them near kids).)