4 ms·

All I want is a thinner Thinkpad X220 but with upped specs and newer ports. Framework-style upgradable motherboard would be nice but optional. The X220 alread

All I want is a thinner Thinkpad X220 but with upped specs and newer ports. Framework-style upgradable motherboard would be nice but optional. The X220 already has a perfect keyboard, a mousing system that doesn't suck (sorry, I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise), a beautiful form factor for a laptop (if I want a laptop, I want it to be 12-14in for easiest portability), it's practically indestructible and has an array of ports that makes me wonder how people manage with just 3 USB-C ports. Maybe this is just me though.

linguae 10mo ago
It's not just you; I would also love a modern ThinkPad x220. I have a Framework 13 and I enjoy it, though I wish it had better battery life. The perfect laptop for me would be my Framework 13 with a classic ThinkPad keyboard.
tambourine_man 10mo ago
> I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise Everything non-Apple is. Apple's trackpad are great and have been for decades. I’ve done professional image editing on the go even with the tiny by today’s standards PowerBook G4s trackpads. The real tragedy of our industry is that Apple got the basics right a few decades ago but seems determined to make their OS worse for pro user with every release. Yet no one else seems competent or willing to take on the challenge.
- sapphire_tomb 10mo ago
  I see this comment about how awesome Apple Trackpads are all the time here, and just assumed I was missing out because I'd never used a MacBook. But I got given a MacBook Pro recently for work, and I'm super underwhelmed. The trackpad on it is no better or worse than any other trackpad I've used.
  - nehal3m 10mo ago
    Part of their magic is the integration with the operating system in the form of gestures. Their UI for discovering those used to be stellar; every gesture had a little video preview. Right now I'd describe it as just okay. Check the 'trackpad gestures' section in system settings, or this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102482 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102482
    - viraptor 10mo ago
      The gestures are there in KDE already https://github.com/NayamAmarshe/ToucheggKDE https://github.com/NayamAmarshe/ToucheggKDE
      - ColonelPhantom 10mo ago
        Touchegg kinda sucks (gestures are not 1:1 but rather just "triggered"), and you also don't need it. KDE and Gnome (as well as some WMs like Niri) have native touchpad gesture support on Wayland. Using my touchpad for history navigation also works flawlessly on Firefox with two fingers (essentially just horizontal scrolling).
      - buildbot 10mo ago
        I’m sure they manage to hit 120fps smoothly too just like MacOS? …
  - silon42 10mo ago
    I find it worse, because it's far too big for me... the thinkpad T series one is acceptable. What I'd want in a hack laptop is a full size TKL keyboard (and full height, or close), with a trackpoint (or 2 -- add one near the arrow keys).
  - lenkite 10mo ago
    > The trackpad on it is no better or worse than any other trackpad I've used. Compared to the thinkpad trackpad, it is light-years ahead. It is also more robust - functions with a little bit of dirt/oil/dirt/water. Get some oil on the thinkpad trackpad and you need to spend 10 mins wiping it away for it to work without driving you nuts. Even hardcore thinkpad fans have grudgingly admitted to the superiority of the Macbook trackpad. Check the thinkpad forums to see their envy.
spankibalt 10mo ago
> "I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise" Same for me, Apple included; trackpads are just a huge waste of space to me. Have to say that my hand-eye coordination is way above that of the average computer user, and my workflows involving complementary HIDs always focused on trackballs, digtizer pens, as well as gamepads/game controllers for other, non-game related stuff. I also don't get why people still chase outdated form factors (laptops) by preference as opposed to market realities...
- SoftTalker 10mo ago
  Also don't like trackpads. I even use a ThinkPad keyboard on my desktop. The little rubber nub between G and H is just the ideal control for the pointer. And real buttons for clicking.
  - MarsIronPI 10mo ago
    Heh, I use a trackball at the desk. It's nice because I can "fling" the ball to move my mouse fast across a large screen. But I can still move the mouse precisely by making small adjustments with my thumb. All this without moving my hand across the desk.
- MrGreenTea 10mo ago
  I don't understand what you mean by "outdated form factors". Are you saying that the laptop is an outdated form factor? What "market realities" are you noticing? Really interested in your viewpoint and would be grateful for some clarification.
  - spankibalt 10mo ago
    > "Are you saying that the laptop is an outdated form factor?" Yes, that's the gist of it. Classic laptops gave way to an acceptable interstage, the T-hinge convertible (with many great examples especially from IBM/Lenovo, HP, and Fujitsu), which was then superseded by the best of both worlds: the detachable. The latter chassis design, taken to its logical conclusion, is the best form factor for a modular, ultramobile to mobile general-purpose computing platform, i. e. it can technically be implemented as anything between a UMPC (i. e. a smartphone-sized and -styled slab) to something with a footprint of maximally 14 inches (example: HP's discontinued ZBook X2 G4 mobile workstation). Anything bigger I consider an antithesis to the form factor and therefore would not buy it, but that's obviously in the eye of any beholder. One possible unrealistic "dream" design for me is, as weird as it sounds, a cross between a Nintendo Switch/Lenovo Legion Go (complete with detachable controller options!) and an improved Panasonic Toughbook G2, reworked as a professional-grade, maintenance-friendly mobile workstation (or a scaled-down, more maintenance-friendly and otherwise improved HP ZBook X2 G4 with ECC memory). > "What 'market realities' are you noticing?" Well, the above mentioned design is unrealistic as it would amount to an expensive general-purpose machine that needs a long-term support infrastructure. Not many companies on the market that are in a position to deliver on that promise for at least three continental zones (say, the Americas, the Eurozone and major parts of Asia). Or willing to do so. Furthermore, the comment was a reflection on what is available on the market for the foreseeable future. I'm eyeing such a small mobile workstation for a) 2D graphics work and b) analysis of historical and archival data. I am even willing to put up with a classic laptop if I could get an ECC-equipped model. But none of these machines are mobile, they're all 16-inch+ brutes. No thanks. So I have to look for other machines. ECC-machine? Fuck, most likely some mini-PC in addition to something mobile without ECC memory. Keeping that in mind, what are the options that come closest to the above ideal? Essentially only overspecialized, maintenance-averse gaming machines with pathetic battery life and a support quality somewhere between questionable and utterly inacceptable (Lenovo consumer division, OneXPlayer, Asus). A Panasonic Toughbook G2 10-incher could be an acceptable alternative, but I'm not gonna fork over Panasonic-money for a non-ECC ruggedized machine without a DCI-P3 screen and a digitizer that's even worse than an Apple Pencil (I think they use either Microsoft's Pen Protocol or Wacom's AES tech). Everything else is locked-down garbage with some sort of Fisher-Price OS, e. g. everything Apple, Samsung's Galaxy Tab Active5 Pro, etc.
estimator7292 10mo ago
I would pay almost anything for a Thinkpad T530 with a modern AMD chipset, a high resolution screen, and USB-C. That thing is my platonic ideal of a laptop

linguae 10mo ago

It's not just you; I would also love a modern ThinkPad x220. I have a Framework 13 and I enjoy it, though I wish it had better battery life. The perfect laptop for me would be my Framework 13 with a classic ThinkPad keyboard.

tambourine_man 10mo ago

> I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise Everything non-Apple is. Apple's trackpad are great and have been for decades. I’ve done professional image editing on the go even with the tiny by today’s standards PowerBook G4s trackpads. The real tragedy of our industry is that Apple got the basics right a few decades ago but seems determined to make their OS worse for pro user with every release. Yet no one else seems competent or willing to take on the challenge.

sapphire_tomb 10mo ago
I see this comment about how awesome Apple Trackpads are all the time here, and just assumed I was missing out because I'd never used a MacBook. But I got given a MacBook Pro recently for work, and I'm super underwhelmed. The trackpad on it is no better or worse than any other trackpad I've used.
- nehal3m 10mo ago
  Part of their magic is the integration with the operating system in the form of gestures. Their UI for discovering those used to be stellar; every gesture had a little video preview. Right now I'd describe it as just okay. Check the 'trackpad gestures' section in system settings, or this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102482 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102482
  - viraptor 10mo ago
    The gestures are there in KDE already https://github.com/NayamAmarshe/ToucheggKDE https://github.com/NayamAmarshe/ToucheggKDE
    - ColonelPhantom 10mo ago
      Touchegg kinda sucks (gestures are not 1:1 but rather just "triggered"), and you also don't need it. KDE and Gnome (as well as some WMs like Niri) have native touchpad gesture support on Wayland. Using my touchpad for history navigation also works flawlessly on Firefox with two fingers (essentially just horizontal scrolling).
    - buildbot 10mo ago
      I’m sure they manage to hit 120fps smoothly too just like MacOS? …
- silon42 10mo ago
  I find it worse, because it's far too big for me... the thinkpad T series one is acceptable. What I'd want in a hack laptop is a full size TKL keyboard (and full height, or close), with a trackpoint (or 2 -- add one near the arrow keys).
- lenkite 10mo ago
  > The trackpad on it is no better or worse than any other trackpad I've used. Compared to the thinkpad trackpad, it is light-years ahead. It is also more robust - functions with a little bit of dirt/oil/dirt/water. Get some oil on the thinkpad trackpad and you need to spend 10 mins wiping it away for it to work without driving you nuts. Even hardcore thinkpad fans have grudgingly admitted to the superiority of the Macbook trackpad. Check the thinkpad forums to see their envy.

spankibalt 10mo ago

> "I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise" Same for me, Apple included; trackpads are just a huge waste of space to me. Have to say that my hand-eye coordination is way above that of the average computer user, and my workflows involving complementary HIDs always focused on trackballs, digtizer pens, as well as gamepads/game controllers for other, non-game related stuff. I also don't get why people still chase outdated form factors (laptops) by preference as opposed to market realities...

SoftTalker 10mo ago
Also don't like trackpads. I even use a ThinkPad keyboard on my desktop. The little rubber nub between G and H is just the ideal control for the pointer. And real buttons for clicking.
- MarsIronPI 10mo ago
  Heh, I use a trackball at the desk. It's nice because I can "fling" the ball to move my mouse fast across a large screen. But I can still move the mouse precisely by making small adjustments with my thumb. All this without moving my hand across the desk.
MrGreenTea 10mo ago
I don't understand what you mean by "outdated form factors". Are you saying that the laptop is an outdated form factor? What "market realities" are you noticing? Really interested in your viewpoint and would be grateful for some clarification.
- spankibalt 10mo ago
  > "Are you saying that the laptop is an outdated form factor?" Yes, that's the gist of it. Classic laptops gave way to an acceptable interstage, the T-hinge convertible (with many great examples especially from IBM/Lenovo, HP, and Fujitsu), which was then superseded by the best of both worlds: the detachable. The latter chassis design, taken to its logical conclusion, is the best form factor for a modular, ultramobile to mobile general-purpose computing platform, i. e. it can technically be implemented as anything between a UMPC (i. e. a smartphone-sized and -styled slab) to something with a footprint of maximally 14 inches (example: HP's discontinued ZBook X2 G4 mobile workstation). Anything bigger I consider an antithesis to the form factor and therefore would not buy it, but that's obviously in the eye of any beholder. One possible unrealistic "dream" design for me is, as weird as it sounds, a cross between a Nintendo Switch/Lenovo Legion Go (complete with detachable controller options!) and an improved Panasonic Toughbook G2, reworked as a professional-grade, maintenance-friendly mobile workstation (or a scaled-down, more maintenance-friendly and otherwise improved HP ZBook X2 G4 with ECC memory). > "What 'market realities' are you noticing?" Well, the above mentioned design is unrealistic as it would amount to an expensive general-purpose machine that needs a long-term support infrastructure. Not many companies on the market that are in a position to deliver on that promise for at least three continental zones (say, the Americas, the Eurozone and major parts of Asia). Or willing to do so. Furthermore, the comment was a reflection on what is available on the market for the foreseeable future. I'm eyeing such a small mobile workstation for a) 2D graphics work and b) analysis of historical and archival data. I am even willing to put up with a classic laptop if I could get an ECC-equipped model. But none of these machines are mobile, they're all 16-inch+ brutes. No thanks. So I have to look for other machines. ECC-machine? Fuck, most likely some mini-PC in addition to something mobile without ECC memory. Keeping that in mind, what are the options that come closest to the above ideal? Essentially only overspecialized, maintenance-averse gaming machines with pathetic battery life and a support quality somewhere between questionable and utterly inacceptable (Lenovo consumer division, OneXPlayer, Asus). A Panasonic Toughbook G2 10-incher could be an acceptable alternative, but I'm not gonna fork over Panasonic-money for a non-ECC ruggedized machine without a DCI-P3 screen and a digitizer that's even worse than an Apple Pencil (I think they use either Microsoft's Pen Protocol or Wacom's AES tech). Everything else is locked-down garbage with some sort of Fisher-Price OS, e. g. everything Apple, Samsung's Galaxy Tab Active5 Pro, etc.

estimator7292 10mo ago

I would pay almost anything for a Thinkpad T530 with a modern AMD chipset, a high resolution screen, and USB-C. That thing is my platonic ideal of a laptop