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Ireland nobly took a stand against fighting the Nazis in WW2, and they've been similarly brave ever since.

beezlewax 11mo ago
Notably thousands of Irish soldiers did fight the Germans in WW2 but via joining the British Army... an act that was frowned upon at the times. Many were killed.
- whenc 11mo ago
  And when they came back, they were blacklisted by order of the government: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211
  - hexbin010 11mo ago
    Jesus I never knew that. Shocking
    - spwa4 11mo ago
      A lot of governments took the side of the Nazis. Including the EU's founder, Robert Schuman, ex-Nazi collaborator of the French Vichy government. But that is nothing compared to many others. Things get so much worse. The Dutch Child protection agency has in it's historical archives, not just that they collaborated with implementing the holocaust against children, but actually organized it. Jewish (and various other groups, like Romani) children were "invited" to summer camps, that turned out to be death camps (and the "east front", which you also didn't return from). They even set a trap to deport Jewish and mentally and physically disabled children to extermination camps, including a number of their own personnel, and even went so far as to hunt their own personnel that "chose the side of the children". Austrian child protection agency selected children to be sent to death camps. That, Austrian psychiatry before and during the holocaust, is where Autism comes from. The first children diagnosed with Autism were not just sent to death camps, that was the only purpose of the diagnosis of Autism. To mark the child for death to "protect (something about race that I will not repeat)". In case you ever wonder why the child protection agencies of those countries still reserve the right to lie about the death of children, even today, that is why. Because both mass-murdered children out of racism, and if a concrete case, of which there are many, were to come to court even today ... And yet, it gets worse. And extremely confusing. Many things boil down to what everybody actually kind of knows. Ideas, especially implemented on the scale of a state, come from a long history and trials. Everything around WW2 was, justly and correctly, blamed on the Nazis. Nazis did those things. But they got the idea, and in many cases personnel, from somewhere. And a LOT of groups have used that to absolve themselves of what they did before, often long before, WW2. Look up "industrial psychiatry" sometime.
  - TMWNN 11mo ago
    I had heard of the blacklist, but thought that it was for those who deserted the Irish military to join the British. Punishing deserters is understandable, no matter the motive. That said, if I understand the article correctly, those who did this were punished worse than deserters who did not go fight?!?
- TulliusCicero 11mo ago
  I don't dispute that there are many brave individual Irish people of course, but in terms of the country as a whole in matters of policy...
  - beezlewax 11mo ago
    You were about to refer to a specific policy you disagreed with or...?
Spooky23 11mo ago
[flagged]
- TulliusCicero 11mo ago
  > Ireland chose to take a position against colonialism By refusing to fight the Nazis? What? Are you implying that the Allies were the colonizers in WW2? (The Allied countries were also colonizers obviously, but within WW2 it's pretty obvious which countries were doing more of that, and more aggressively)
  - Spooky23 11mo ago
    What was a tiny, broke, agrarian country just out of a civil war that was still simmering going to do about the Nazis? They had a well-justified disdain for being pulled into the British orbit. They chose neutrality. Do you hold Switzerland and Sweden to the same standard? If Britain were to join in a conflict with Russia over Ukraine, would you expect Indian soldiers to rally to the cause of their former King and Country? If you’re an American, would you be in favor of providing VA benefits to US Army soldiers who deserted and joined the Ukrainian army?
    - tim333 11mo ago
      Dunno about deserting to join the Ukrainian army but they seem ok with leaving the US military and joining the Ukrainian army. See Malcolm Nance for example.
      - TMWNN 11mo ago
        Nance had been retired from the US military for two decades when he joined the Ukrainian military.
  - jonplackett 11mo ago
    Britain was still literally an empire at this point, currently colonising India and many other places. You can say they should fight the nazis anyway but making the argument that they should do this because Britain weren’t colonisers doesn’t make sense.
potro 11mo ago
Well, one can look at this as at least a step in the right direction, compared to the active collaboration with Germany during WW1 by the people who became Irish government by the time of WW2 arrived.
- jltsiren 11mo ago
  The two world wars were not the same. WW1 was a stupid war that happened for stupid reasons, and there were no real moral differences between the sides. Many nations tried to use the war as an opportunity for independence by collaborating with the opposing side. Some of them were successful. In Finland, we still call infantry Jägers in honor of those who went to Germany to receive military training and to fight against Russia.
TheGuyWhoCodes 11mo ago
They also offered condolences to the Nazis when Hitler offed himself.

Notably thousands of Irish soldiers did fight the Germans in WW2 but via joining the British Army... an act that was frowned upon at the times. Many were killed.

whenc 11mo ago
And when they came back, they were blacklisted by order of the government: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211
- hexbin010 11mo ago
  Jesus I never knew that. Shocking
  - spwa4 11mo ago
    A lot of governments took the side of the Nazis. Including the EU's founder, Robert Schuman, ex-Nazi collaborator of the French Vichy government. But that is nothing compared to many others. Things get so much worse. The Dutch Child protection agency has in it's historical archives, not just that they collaborated with implementing the holocaust against children, but actually organized it. Jewish (and various other groups, like Romani) children were "invited" to summer camps, that turned out to be death camps (and the "east front", which you also didn't return from). They even set a trap to deport Jewish and mentally and physically disabled children to extermination camps, including a number of their own personnel, and even went so far as to hunt their own personnel that "chose the side of the children". Austrian child protection agency selected children to be sent to death camps. That, Austrian psychiatry before and during the holocaust, is where Autism comes from. The first children diagnosed with Autism were not just sent to death camps, that was the only purpose of the diagnosis of Autism. To mark the child for death to "protect (something about race that I will not repeat)". In case you ever wonder why the child protection agencies of those countries still reserve the right to lie about the death of children, even today, that is why. Because both mass-murdered children out of racism, and if a concrete case, of which there are many, were to come to court even today ... And yet, it gets worse. And extremely confusing. Many things boil down to what everybody actually kind of knows. Ideas, especially implemented on the scale of a state, come from a long history and trials. Everything around WW2 was, justly and correctly, blamed on the Nazis. Nazis did those things. But they got the idea, and in many cases personnel, from somewhere. And a LOT of groups have used that to absolve themselves of what they did before, often long before, WW2. Look up "industrial psychiatry" sometime.
- TMWNN 11mo ago
  I had heard of the blacklist, but thought that it was for those who deserted the Irish military to join the British. Punishing deserters is understandable, no matter the motive. That said, if I understand the article correctly, those who did this were punished worse than deserters who did not go fight?!?
TulliusCicero 11mo ago
I don't dispute that there are many brave individual Irish people of course, but in terms of the country as a whole in matters of policy...
- beezlewax 11mo ago
  You were about to refer to a specific policy you disagreed with or...?

Spooky23 11mo ago

[flagged]

TulliusCicero 11mo ago
> Ireland chose to take a position against colonialism By refusing to fight the Nazis? What? Are you implying that the Allies were the colonizers in WW2? (The Allied countries were also colonizers obviously, but within WW2 it's pretty obvious which countries were doing more of that, and more aggressively)
- Spooky23 11mo ago
  What was a tiny, broke, agrarian country just out of a civil war that was still simmering going to do about the Nazis? They had a well-justified disdain for being pulled into the British orbit. They chose neutrality. Do you hold Switzerland and Sweden to the same standard? If Britain were to join in a conflict with Russia over Ukraine, would you expect Indian soldiers to rally to the cause of their former King and Country? If you’re an American, would you be in favor of providing VA benefits to US Army soldiers who deserted and joined the Ukrainian army?
  - tim333 11mo ago
    Dunno about deserting to join the Ukrainian army but they seem ok with leaving the US military and joining the Ukrainian army. See Malcolm Nance for example.
    - TMWNN 11mo ago
      Nance had been retired from the US military for two decades when he joined the Ukrainian military.
- jonplackett 11mo ago
  Britain was still literally an empire at this point, currently colonising India and many other places. You can say they should fight the nazis anyway but making the argument that they should do this because Britain weren’t colonisers doesn’t make sense.

potro 11mo ago

Well, one can look at this as at least a step in the right direction, compared to the active collaboration with Germany during WW1 by the people who became Irish government by the time of WW2 arrived.

jltsiren 11mo ago
The two world wars were not the same. WW1 was a stupid war that happened for stupid reasons, and there were no real moral differences between the sides. Many nations tried to use the war as an opportunity for independence by collaborating with the opposing side. Some of them were successful. In Finland, we still call infantry Jägers in honor of those who went to Germany to receive military training and to fight against Russia.

TheGuyWhoCodes 11mo ago

They also offered condolences to the Nazis when Hitler offed himself.