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Salute to this guy, Xu Qinxian. Funny how (possibly worse) anti-democratic massacres done by US allies (and much more recently) don't get continuous coverage U

by ks2048 11mo ago

Salute to this guy, Xu Qinxian. Funny how (possibly worse) anti-democratic massacres done by US allies (and much more recently) don't get continuous coverage US/Western/Business/Tech press. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabaa_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabaa_massacre

latincommie 11mo ago
Not only US allies but the US himself.
SequoiaHope 11mo ago
To others: if you’re downvoting a link a massacre because it feels like the wrong kind of comment, I encourage you to at least read through about the event. I had not learned about this before. It’s perfectly interesting and I think the comment is worth considering in its intent. “On 14 August 2013, the Egyptian police and to a lesser extent the armed forces, under the command of then-Defense Minister Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, used lethal force to clear two camps of protesters in Cairo. Estimates of those killed vary from 600 to 2,600.”
- girvo 11mo ago
  Not that I’m one to do so, but comments like that usually get downvoted as it’s a quintessential example of whataboutism. Egypts government is abhorrent.
  - Waterluvian 11mo ago
    I’m not sure this is whataboutism. To me at least, the distinguishing feature is using a whatabout as a form of deflection or absolution.
    - jraines 11mo ago
      Well we’re talking about Egypt & rhetoric now, so …
    - luckylion 11mo ago
      "yeah, yeah, that's bad, BUT HERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT" Whataboutism doesn't give absolution, it's only meant to deflect, as ks2048 did.
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  - SequoiaHope 11mo ago
    I think there is room for a certain reasonable reaction to propagandized information like this. We focus certain bad things while ignoring others. Recognizing that we do ignore other bad things can be valuable context for how we interpret these stories.
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porphyra 11mo ago
Every time one points out western hypocrisy, one gets accused of "whataboutism".
- tadfisher 11mo ago
  We aren't representing Western civilization here, so it's not hypocritical to believe that massacring civilians is wrong no matter who is doing the massacring. More to the point, none of us control their country's relationship with massacre-friendly allies, making these discussions less than useful. If there's a useful point to be made by illustrating these relationships, it's that no one is really in control except those in the tanks and airplanes.
  - justsomejew 11mo ago
    You seem to suggest the other person does not think it is wrong to massacre civilians. Where have you seen that? And the point about "whataboutism" is very much true: used as a tool to silence people who dare to think differently.
danielheath 11mo ago
If the Chinese government had said “yeah, that happened” instead of denying there were protests at all, the obsession over it would vanish. The gaslighting is ongoing, IMO that’s what keeps it in the western consciousness.
- latincommie 11mo ago
  Not really, what keeps every media outlet doing that is the fact that China is the biggest economy in the world, and is an active enemy of western bourgeoisie. That is explicit defined in USA/UK and all major central capitalism countries currently. You want another example of western hipocrisy? Everyone started worrying about a "massacre" on Xinjiang, WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE (the source was... Radio Free Asia, which is CIA). But then, the Palestian massacre came to news again with Israel large-scale deleting women and children from existence, and suddently everyone forgot of Xinjiang and genociding middle-east people is allowed. Wonder why?
  - danielheath 11mo ago
    You and I experience very different media environments, if Palestine is not a topic of discussion in yours.
nkrisc 11mo ago
Well I remember being taught about the Kent State massacre in school and how it was a stain on our country, and that we were learning about it because things like that need to be remembered, not forgotten. Compare that how Tiananmen Square massacre is taught in China. I assume the outsized focus on it is somewhat related to the lack of contrition and accountability.
- vkou 11mo ago
  > Well I remember being taught about the Kent State massacre in school and how it was a stain on our country, and that we were learning about it because things like that need to be remembered, not forgotten. School taught you the wrong lesson about it. ~Half the country (guess which half) supported it... And I've no doubt that they'd do so again.
  - BurningFrog 11mo ago
    There are alternative stories about how the students attacked the soldiers who fired in self defense.
  - SpicyLemonZest 11mo ago
    What specifically is the wrong lesson that you've inferred school taught the original commenter about it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you agree that it was "a stain on our country" and that it needs to be remembered.
    - vkou 11mo ago
      The wrong lesson is that while the teacher may think it's a stain, and you and I think it's a stain and how any civilized person would think it's a stain, the country doesn't think it's a stain. What's important about it isn't that it happened, or what we think about it. What's important is how many people didn't think it was a mistake - and wouldn't when it happens again. It reveals a major blindspot.
      - 11mo ago
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by ks2048 11mo ago

latincommie 11mo ago

Not only US allies but the US himself.

SequoiaHope 11mo ago

To others: if you’re downvoting a link a massacre because it feels like the wrong kind of comment, I encourage you to at least read through about the event. I had not learned about this before. It’s perfectly interesting and I think the comment is worth considering in its intent. “On 14 August 2013, the Egyptian police and to a lesser extent the armed forces, under the command of then-Defense Minister Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, used lethal force to clear two camps of protesters in Cairo. Estimates of those killed vary from 600 to 2,600.”

girvo 11mo ago
Not that I’m one to do so, but comments like that usually get downvoted as it’s a quintessential example of whataboutism. Egypts government is abhorrent.
- Waterluvian 11mo ago
  I’m not sure this is whataboutism. To me at least, the distinguishing feature is using a whatabout as a form of deflection or absolution.
  - jraines 11mo ago
    Well we’re talking about Egypt & rhetoric now, so …
  - luckylion 11mo ago
    "yeah, yeah, that's bad, BUT HERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT" Whataboutism doesn't give absolution, it's only meant to deflect, as ks2048 did.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- SequoiaHope 11mo ago
  I think there is room for a certain reasonable reaction to propagandized information like this. We focus certain bad things while ignoring others. Recognizing that we do ignore other bad things can be valuable context for how we interpret these stories.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 11mo ago
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deleted 11mo ago

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porphyra 11mo ago

Every time one points out western hypocrisy, one gets accused of "whataboutism".

tadfisher 11mo ago
We aren't representing Western civilization here, so it's not hypocritical to believe that massacring civilians is wrong no matter who is doing the massacring. More to the point, none of us control their country's relationship with massacre-friendly allies, making these discussions less than useful. If there's a useful point to be made by illustrating these relationships, it's that no one is really in control except those in the tanks and airplanes.
- justsomejew 11mo ago
  You seem to suggest the other person does not think it is wrong to massacre civilians. Where have you seen that? And the point about "whataboutism" is very much true: used as a tool to silence people who dare to think differently.

danielheath 11mo ago

If the Chinese government had said “yeah, that happened” instead of denying there were protests at all, the obsession over it would vanish. The gaslighting is ongoing, IMO that’s what keeps it in the western consciousness.

latincommie 11mo ago
Not really, what keeps every media outlet doing that is the fact that China is the biggest economy in the world, and is an active enemy of western bourgeoisie. That is explicit defined in USA/UK and all major central capitalism countries currently. You want another example of western hipocrisy? Everyone started worrying about a "massacre" on Xinjiang, WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE (the source was... Radio Free Asia, which is CIA). But then, the Palestian massacre came to news again with Israel large-scale deleting women and children from existence, and suddently everyone forgot of Xinjiang and genociding middle-east people is allowed. Wonder why?
- danielheath 11mo ago
  You and I experience very different media environments, if Palestine is not a topic of discussion in yours.

nkrisc 11mo ago

Well I remember being taught about the Kent State massacre in school and how it was a stain on our country, and that we were learning about it because things like that need to be remembered, not forgotten. Compare that how Tiananmen Square massacre is taught in China. I assume the outsized focus on it is somewhat related to the lack of contrition and accountability.

vkou 11mo ago
> Well I remember being taught about the Kent State massacre in school and how it was a stain on our country, and that we were learning about it because things like that need to be remembered, not forgotten. School taught you the wrong lesson about it. ~Half the country (guess which half) supported it... And I've no doubt that they'd do so again.
- BurningFrog 11mo ago
  There are alternative stories about how the students attacked the soldiers who fired in self defense.
- SpicyLemonZest 11mo ago
  What specifically is the wrong lesson that you've inferred school taught the original commenter about it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you agree that it was "a stain on our country" and that it needs to be remembered.
  - vkou 11mo ago
    The wrong lesson is that while the teacher may think it's a stain, and you and I think it's a stain and how any civilized person would think it's a stain, the country doesn't think it's a stain. What's important about it isn't that it happened, or what we think about it. What's important is how many people didn't think it was a mistake - and wouldn't when it happens again. It reveals a major blindspot.
    - 11mo ago

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