4 ms·

Don't worry, once the Wall Street tap runs dry, the U.S. government will be more than happy to step in and bail out the AI corps. at the taxpayer's expense.

jgalt212 10mo ago
You're being downvoted, but a number of AI actors certainly taking actions to become "too big to fail".
vondur 10mo ago
I said the same thing on a different post and people downvoted it. The current administration believes that the US can't fall behind China in this AI arms race. So don't expect anything too drastic to happen to the large players in the game.
- zerosizedweasle 10mo ago
  Maybe, but a clear Republican bailout of AI might wipe them out for several election cycles / foreseeable future. Big tech isn’t popular, AI isn’t popular and bail outs aren’t popular
  - nebula8804 10mo ago
    What evidence do you have that that's going to be the case? I ask because my entire life, I've seen terrible things done by the Republican Party. And regular people get really hurt. For example, the great financial crisis. Yet, a little bit of time passes, and that 30-some-odd percent goes right back to voting for them.
  - nine_zeros 10mo ago
    [dead]
  - rchaud 10mo ago
    The public voted for Republicans in their highest-ever numbers in 2020 when the party did everything possible to denigrate public health efforts and scientific research at a time when hundreds of thousands were dying of Covid, with no Mexican wall or Obamacare repeal promises met. There is no scenario where the American vote for a party will fall below 48%, and elections will continue to be decided by how 3-4 states vote.
    - vanattab 10mo ago
      There is a scenario, when the public wake's up and demands the right to rank their vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting
- malka1986 10mo ago
  China made the us fall in kinda the same trap that the us madeade ussr fall into with the moon race.
  - 1718627440 10mo ago
    Does anybody know how much an ML model is actually worth to build a new model? Like when they start making a new model, do they modify the old or do they start from scratch? I'm asking to know how much owning a model is actually worth, not in how much it could make money by selling use, but in how much it deprecates and keeps value to make a new one. If say one side of China/US lacks out on a model generation, do they only need to follow progress on the science behind it and when they own the data, the algorithm and the hardware all they need is "just" time and energy or is it important, that they actually have their on instance of a large model from every generation continuously?
daedrdev 10mo ago
With what money? US debt is owned by mostly US residents. US defecit is already absurdly high. Not to mention the looming social security failure
- stvltvs 10mo ago
  You print more money. The only limit is the inflation you create.
  - anonymars 10mo ago
    Not to disagree with the overall point, but because this comes up a lot I'll nitpick it: issuing debt is not the same as printing money With debt, along with the proverbial "cash" comes an opposing "IOU" -- any change* is thus only temporary, in the time dimension (essentially that's what's being exchanged: time) Printing money out of nowhere is different, because it's missing that other half * at the risk of stating the obvious: "change" meaning "difference" and not "cents"
    - seanmcdirmid 10mo ago
      A lot of debt also arises because of savings needs. If everyone is saving for retirement, for example, that savings has to be debt marked somewhere else. Examples: * Social security used to have a huge surplus, that was savings that had to go somewhere (even if it was just a savings account in a bank, the bank would then be able to lend it out). They instead buy treasuries and that savings becomes debt to the USG. * China likewise needs to save dollars because it doesn't want them sloshing around in their economy leading to inflation, so instead of using it to buy things they buy treasuries, and their savings becomes debt to the USG (not always a great deal for China if interest rates are below inflation). The dollar has been so useful in the past as a currency of trade because you could save large amounts of it easily by buying US treasuries. One reason China doesn't want the RMB to be used so heavily for trade is that they don't want to do the same yet.
    - somewhereoutth 10mo ago
      Actually it kind of is, in as much as it expands the money supply. When a bank issues debt, the money is created 'out of thin air'. When the debt is paid off, that money is destroyed. However usually more debt is being created than redeemed as things go on, so the total money supply increases (this is a good thing, as it allows the economy to expand). Various regulations and central bank market interventions (quantitative tightening/easing) control this process, which thus can be induced to 'print money' if the government wishes - assuming they have a sovereign currency.
sethops1 10mo ago
See: the Genesis Mission https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/11/launching-the-genesis-mission/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/11/laun... I complained about it already https://tickerfeed.net/articles/whitehouse-genesis-mission-bailout-openai-nvidia https://tickerfeed.net/articles/whitehouse-genesis-mission-b...
roadside_picnic 10mo ago
It's national defense! Imagine if China had more slop than us!
- seanmcdirmid 10mo ago
  China is focusing heavily on AI applications. They have basically decided already to deal with their coming demographic bust with robuts/AI rather than immigration. Its not even about military applications, the US is just afraid that China will shoot so far ahead of us economically that they won't have any leverage over it in the future at all.
  - nebula8804 10mo ago
    There's a lot of nonsense that comes out on both sides of the aisle. I wish there was a solid single source of truth to figure out what's really going on in China and what's really going on behind the scenes in the U.S. Some talk about how China has some strategic issues, such as do they have a reliable supply of food and energy? (Zeihan etc.) I guess the energy portion is being solved with renewables. And I guess if they solve the issue of demographic collapse with robots and AI, that's something. But really, if there's less people and they're getting older, what's the point? What are they really working towards? This question is also becoming a problem post-Trump immigration ban in the U.S. Who knows what the U.S.'s demographics are going to look like now? Trump inherited a U.S. with some of the best demographics of all nations on the planet, especially in the West. And he managed to throw that in the garbage.
    - alexashka 10mo ago
      > There's a lot of nonsense that comes out on both sides of the aisle. I wish there was a solid single source of truth to figure out what's really going on in China and what's really going on behind the scenes in the U.S. Isn't this simply the answer? That what's going on is gaslighting of the public and that there are people behind the scenes and they don't want hoi polloi to know what they're up to? This geo-politics (or politics) talk is 'intellectual' men's astrology. When a woman asks me my astrological sign, I know she's a deeply unserious person. When a man says 'do they have a reliable supply of food and energy'...
dataviz1000 10mo ago
> Don't worry, once the Wall Street tap runs dry, the U.S. government will be more than happy to step in and bail out the AI corps. at the taxpayer's expense. I have a brilliant idea. Why not start this now? The US government will give every child born $1000 in money in order to hand it to the small number of families who own 70% of equities in order to purchase equities the child can't touch for 18 years. That is US Government -> child -> rich person who currently owns the equity, although the rich person gets the cash in hand the child has to wait 18 years to sell the equity. Where does the US Government get this $1000 per child from? Borrow it, adding to the $38,000,000,000,000 in national debt. Here is the interesting part of my brilliant plan. That child will inherit, calculated per capita, $111,000 in debt the moment she is born. That child will be responsible, calculated per capita, for ~$3,000 a year in interest on that debt. In order to sell the idea, every time the US Government gives $1000 to a child to purchase stocks I own, I will give $250 to another child to purchase stocks I own. Let's do the math: $1000 profit - $250 loss + $250 profit = $1000 profit. Best part is the media will run this as the leading news story for 3 days making me look like God. It is a brilliant idea.
- glitchc 10mo ago
  I love it, except there's no point in providing debt to a party with no ability to pay for ~18 years.
  - bdangubic 10mo ago
    due to ever-increasing income inequality the legal age for being able to have a job will be reduced to 6 in the coming years :)
    - dataviz1000 10mo ago
      The new AI data center I build to do what ever it is that AI Clippy does over at Microsoft will run on coal energy and those dirty chimneys are not going to clean themselves.
- Retric 10mo ago
robocat 10mo ago
Make America Bankrupt Again!?
boh 10mo ago
That's why they're hedging. US government regulation has liquidity requirements so it doesn't occur.
Nasrudith 10mo ago
History reminder to everyone: The dot com companies were not bailed out. Only the Detroit auto industry. What is with this rage-bait assumption that a bailout is guaranteed?
- thunky 10mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspan_put https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspan_put

jgalt212 10mo ago

You're being downvoted, but a number of AI actors certainly taking actions to become "too big to fail".

vondur 10mo ago

I said the same thing on a different post and people downvoted it. The current administration believes that the US can't fall behind China in this AI arms race. So don't expect anything too drastic to happen to the large players in the game.

zerosizedweasle 10mo ago
Maybe, but a clear Republican bailout of AI might wipe them out for several election cycles / foreseeable future. Big tech isn’t popular, AI isn’t popular and bail outs aren’t popular
- nebula8804 10mo ago
  What evidence do you have that that's going to be the case? I ask because my entire life, I've seen terrible things done by the Republican Party. And regular people get really hurt. For example, the great financial crisis. Yet, a little bit of time passes, and that 30-some-odd percent goes right back to voting for them.
- nine_zeros 10mo ago
  [dead]
- rchaud 10mo ago
  The public voted for Republicans in their highest-ever numbers in 2020 when the party did everything possible to denigrate public health efforts and scientific research at a time when hundreds of thousands were dying of Covid, with no Mexican wall or Obamacare repeal promises met. There is no scenario where the American vote for a party will fall below 48%, and elections will continue to be decided by how 3-4 states vote.
  - vanattab 10mo ago
    There is a scenario, when the public wake's up and demands the right to rank their vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting
malka1986 10mo ago
China made the us fall in kinda the same trap that the us madeade ussr fall into with the moon race.
- 1718627440 10mo ago
  Does anybody know how much an ML model is actually worth to build a new model? Like when they start making a new model, do they modify the old or do they start from scratch? I'm asking to know how much owning a model is actually worth, not in how much it could make money by selling use, but in how much it deprecates and keeps value to make a new one. If say one side of China/US lacks out on a model generation, do they only need to follow progress on the science behind it and when they own the data, the algorithm and the hardware all they need is "just" time and energy or is it important, that they actually have their on instance of a large model from every generation continuously?

daedrdev 10mo ago

With what money? US debt is owned by mostly US residents. US defecit is already absurdly high. Not to mention the looming social security failure

stvltvs 10mo ago
You print more money. The only limit is the inflation you create.
- anonymars 10mo ago
  Not to disagree with the overall point, but because this comes up a lot I'll nitpick it: issuing debt is not the same as printing money With debt, along with the proverbial "cash" comes an opposing "IOU" -- any change* is thus only temporary, in the time dimension (essentially that's what's being exchanged: time) Printing money out of nowhere is different, because it's missing that other half * at the risk of stating the obvious: "change" meaning "difference" and not "cents"
  - seanmcdirmid 10mo ago
    A lot of debt also arises because of savings needs. If everyone is saving for retirement, for example, that savings has to be debt marked somewhere else. Examples: * Social security used to have a huge surplus, that was savings that had to go somewhere (even if it was just a savings account in a bank, the bank would then be able to lend it out). They instead buy treasuries and that savings becomes debt to the USG. * China likewise needs to save dollars because it doesn't want them sloshing around in their economy leading to inflation, so instead of using it to buy things they buy treasuries, and their savings becomes debt to the USG (not always a great deal for China if interest rates are below inflation). The dollar has been so useful in the past as a currency of trade because you could save large amounts of it easily by buying US treasuries. One reason China doesn't want the RMB to be used so heavily for trade is that they don't want to do the same yet.
  - somewhereoutth 10mo ago
    Actually it kind of is, in as much as it expands the money supply. When a bank issues debt, the money is created 'out of thin air'. When the debt is paid off, that money is destroyed. However usually more debt is being created than redeemed as things go on, so the total money supply increases (this is a good thing, as it allows the economy to expand). Various regulations and central bank market interventions (quantitative tightening/easing) control this process, which thus can be induced to 'print money' if the government wishes - assuming they have a sovereign currency.

sethops1 10mo ago

See: the Genesis Mission https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/11/launching-the-genesis-mission/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/11/laun... I complained about it already https://tickerfeed.net/articles/whitehouse-genesis-mission-bailout-openai-nvidia https://tickerfeed.net/articles/whitehouse-genesis-mission-b...

roadside_picnic 10mo ago

It's national defense! Imagine if China had more slop than us!

seanmcdirmid 10mo ago
China is focusing heavily on AI applications. They have basically decided already to deal with their coming demographic bust with robuts/AI rather than immigration. Its not even about military applications, the US is just afraid that China will shoot so far ahead of us economically that they won't have any leverage over it in the future at all.
- nebula8804 10mo ago
  There's a lot of nonsense that comes out on both sides of the aisle. I wish there was a solid single source of truth to figure out what's really going on in China and what's really going on behind the scenes in the U.S. Some talk about how China has some strategic issues, such as do they have a reliable supply of food and energy? (Zeihan etc.) I guess the energy portion is being solved with renewables. And I guess if they solve the issue of demographic collapse with robots and AI, that's something. But really, if there's less people and they're getting older, what's the point? What are they really working towards? This question is also becoming a problem post-Trump immigration ban in the U.S. Who knows what the U.S.'s demographics are going to look like now? Trump inherited a U.S. with some of the best demographics of all nations on the planet, especially in the West. And he managed to throw that in the garbage.
  - alexashka 10mo ago
    > There's a lot of nonsense that comes out on both sides of the aisle. I wish there was a solid single source of truth to figure out what's really going on in China and what's really going on behind the scenes in the U.S. Isn't this simply the answer? That what's going on is gaslighting of the public and that there are people behind the scenes and they don't want hoi polloi to know what they're up to? This geo-politics (or politics) talk is 'intellectual' men's astrology. When a woman asks me my astrological sign, I know she's a deeply unserious person. When a man says 'do they have a reliable supply of food and energy'...

dataviz1000 10mo ago

> Don't worry, once the Wall Street tap runs dry, the U.S. government will be more than happy to step in and bail out the AI corps. at the taxpayer's expense. I have a brilliant idea. Why not start this now? The US government will give every child born $1000 in money in order to hand it to the small number of families who own 70% of equities in order to purchase equities the child can't touch for 18 years. That is US Government -> child -> rich person who currently owns the equity, although the rich person gets the cash in hand the child has to wait 18 years to sell the equity. Where does the US Government get this $1000 per child from? Borrow it, adding to the $38,000,000,000,000 in national debt. Here is the interesting part of my brilliant plan. That child will inherit, calculated per capita, $111,000 in debt the moment she is born. That child will be responsible, calculated per capita, for ~$3,000 a year in interest on that debt. In order to sell the idea, every time the US Government gives $1000 to a child to purchase stocks I own, I will give $250 to another child to purchase stocks I own. Let's do the math: $1000 profit - $250 loss + $250 profit = $1000 profit. Best part is the media will run this as the leading news story for 3 days making me look like God. It is a brilliant idea.

glitchc 10mo ago
I love it, except there's no point in providing debt to a party with no ability to pay for ~18 years.
- bdangubic 10mo ago
  due to ever-increasing income inequality the legal age for being able to have a job will be reduced to 6 in the coming years :)
  - dataviz1000 10mo ago
    The new AI data center I build to do what ever it is that AI Clippy does over at Microsoft will run on coal energy and those dirty chimneys are not going to clean themselves.
Retric 10mo ago

robocat 10mo ago

Make America Bankrupt Again!?

boh 10mo ago

That's why they're hedging. US government regulation has liquidity requirements so it doesn't occur.

Nasrudith 10mo ago

History reminder to everyone: The dot com companies were not bailed out. Only the Detroit auto industry. What is with this rage-bait assumption that a bailout is guaranteed?

thunky 10mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspan_put https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspan_put