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"Then X shouldn't make their business available in the EU" Right... and maybe next the US won't let Europe have any IP space. It's the internet. A US business

"Then X shouldn't make their business available in the EU" Right... and maybe next the US won't let Europe have any IP space. It's the internet. A US business needs to be governed by US law, not whatever law that a user chooses to access their site from..

remus 11mo ago
> A US business needs to be governed by US law, not whatever law that a user chooses to access their site from. Why is that? I think you can reasonably argue that a user should enjoy the protections offered by law in the place they live.
- wyldberry 11mo ago
  They can, they just need to use the EU equivalent of <app> they want. No one is forcing EU residents to use <app>.
  - schubidubiduba 11mo ago
    You've got it the wrong way around. No one is forcing X to operate in the EU. If they want to do that, they need to follow EU laws.
barbazoo 11mo ago
Would you accept or the opposite situation then? A foreign company operating in and violating US law?
embedding-shape 11mo ago
> A US business needs to be governed by US law, not whatever law that a user chooses to access their site from So if I run a business from a country where cocaine is legal, I should be able to sell to users in the US? Are you sure you thought this through? Seems you're letting your emotions get in the way of your reasoning.
- toast0 11mo ago
  Absolutely. A US user sends you money, you send them product. US customs takes the product at the border, and if you transit the border expect to be arrested. Your customer should expect to be arrested as well. Maybe you get put on a list so US banks can't send you money anymore too.
  - embedding-shape 11mo ago
    So same thing happens here, except we're talking packets, and going across wires. They got caught using illegal packets across wires in the country in question, so they get fined. If you have legal presence, then that entity gets the fine. Makes perfect sense for me in both cases.
    - toast0 11mo ago
      If they have presence, then yeah. You have to follow the laws everywhere you have presence. Otherwise you get arrested. (more or less)
      - 1718627440 11mo ago
        That's why the EU requires presence in the EU, when you want to process EU data. This IS exactly what happens here.
        trothamel 11mo ago
        If you don't have a presence in the EU, then the EU can't require anything of you.
        schubidubiduba 11mo ago
        X does have a presence in the EU though, because it wants to make money by selling EU citizens data.
femiagbabiaka 11mo ago
This is pretty much the position of China when it comes to IP law. It's compelling in some senses, but notably the U.S. does not agree.
exe34 11mo ago
it can apply US law in the US, yes. in the EU, it needs to follow EU law.
- aydyn 11mo ago
  And US laws too because lets be honest, EU is a vassal state.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - ben_w 11mo ago
    The current US admin oviously treats it as such, but the EU is 27* nations who don't want to be vassalised* and who work together* to project collective strength on par with the US and China. * except possibly Hungary.
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  To be fair, it's a relatively new concept for many American companies, that they need to follow the laws of the locations they operate in, some companies need a bit of a push to properly understand how the world outside of the US culture bubble works.
  - tensor 11mo ago
    It's actually not. US companies are very used to it and frequently comply with local laws (e.g. in China and elsewhere). What's happening here is a vocal minority is trying to push for some notion of US dominance over other countries. The current administration has openly stated their intent to bully selected countries they don't like in various ways, but especially when it relates to their ability to push US propaganda to foreign places via companies like X.
e2le 11mo ago
Pardon my ignorance, but I don't believe RIPE is a US organisation or branch of the US government. Any attempts by the US government to assert control of a foreign non-profit entity such as RIPE is only going to end in tears. I suspect would also empower those pushing to balkanise the internet should the independence of RIPE or ARIN be violated. I'm not sure region specific intranets is a future anyone should want.
- calvinmorrison 11mo ago
  > Any attempts by the US government to assert control of a foreign non-profit entity such as RIPE is only going to end in tears. The irony of how blind you are. EU trying to enforce censorship laws on American companies will end in tears.
  - tensor 11mo ago
    If those US companies operate in foreign countries, then yes they will be following the law in those countries or they won't be operating there. And no, the only tears flowing will be from those who don't understand how laws and borders work. This has always been true. E.g. Google and others complying with Chinese laws, or not operating at all in places like Iran. X can simply cease operations in EU if they don't like it.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]

remus 11mo ago

> A US business needs to be governed by US law, not whatever law that a user chooses to access their site from. Why is that? I think you can reasonably argue that a user should enjoy the protections offered by law in the place they live.

wyldberry 11mo ago
They can, they just need to use the EU equivalent of <app> they want. No one is forcing EU residents to use <app>.
- schubidubiduba 11mo ago
  You've got it the wrong way around. No one is forcing X to operate in the EU. If they want to do that, they need to follow EU laws.

barbazoo 11mo ago

Would you accept or the opposite situation then? A foreign company operating in and violating US law?

embedding-shape 11mo ago

> A US business needs to be governed by US law, not whatever law that a user chooses to access their site from So if I run a business from a country where cocaine is legal, I should be able to sell to users in the US? Are you sure you thought this through? Seems you're letting your emotions get in the way of your reasoning.

toast0 11mo ago
Absolutely. A US user sends you money, you send them product. US customs takes the product at the border, and if you transit the border expect to be arrested. Your customer should expect to be arrested as well. Maybe you get put on a list so US banks can't send you money anymore too.
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  So same thing happens here, except we're talking packets, and going across wires. They got caught using illegal packets across wires in the country in question, so they get fined. If you have legal presence, then that entity gets the fine. Makes perfect sense for me in both cases.
  - toast0 11mo ago
    If they have presence, then yeah. You have to follow the laws everywhere you have presence. Otherwise you get arrested. (more or less)
    - 1718627440 11mo ago
      That's why the EU requires presence in the EU, when you want to process EU data. This IS exactly what happens here.
      - trothamel 11mo ago
        If you don't have a presence in the EU, then the EU can't require anything of you.
        schubidubiduba 11mo ago
        X does have a presence in the EU though, because it wants to make money by selling EU citizens data.

femiagbabiaka 11mo ago

This is pretty much the position of China when it comes to IP law. It's compelling in some senses, but notably the U.S. does not agree.

exe34 11mo ago

it can apply US law in the US, yes. in the EU, it needs to follow EU law.

aydyn 11mo ago
And US laws too because lets be honest, EU is a vassal state.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- ben_w 11mo ago
  The current US admin oviously treats it as such, but the EU is 27* nations who don't want to be vassalised* and who work together* to project collective strength on par with the US and China. * except possibly Hungary.
embedding-shape 11mo ago
To be fair, it's a relatively new concept for many American companies, that they need to follow the laws of the locations they operate in, some companies need a bit of a push to properly understand how the world outside of the US culture bubble works.
- tensor 11mo ago
  It's actually not. US companies are very used to it and frequently comply with local laws (e.g. in China and elsewhere). What's happening here is a vocal minority is trying to push for some notion of US dominance over other countries. The current administration has openly stated their intent to bully selected countries they don't like in various ways, but especially when it relates to their ability to push US propaganda to foreign places via companies like X.

e2le 11mo ago

Pardon my ignorance, but I don't believe RIPE is a US organisation or branch of the US government. Any attempts by the US government to assert control of a foreign non-profit entity such as RIPE is only going to end in tears. I suspect would also empower those pushing to balkanise the internet should the independence of RIPE or ARIN be violated. I'm not sure region specific intranets is a future anyone should want.

calvinmorrison 11mo ago
> Any attempts by the US government to assert control of a foreign non-profit entity such as RIPE is only going to end in tears. The irony of how blind you are. EU trying to enforce censorship laws on American companies will end in tears.
- tensor 11mo ago
  If those US companies operate in foreign countries, then yes they will be following the law in those countries or they won't be operating there. And no, the only tears flowing will be from those who don't understand how laws and borders work. This has always been true. E.g. Google and others complying with Chinese laws, or not operating at all in places like Iran. X can simply cease operations in EU if they don't like it.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]