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If only Lisp had better presense in modern code editors. Emacs is not enough, especially on Windows where it is super slow. I think this is what actually stops
by enbugger 10mo ago
If only Lisp had better presense in modern code editors. Emacs is not enough, especially on Windows where it is super slow. I think this is what actually stops newcomers to start with Lisp and not Python
- embedding-shape 10mo ago> I think this is what actually stops newcomers to start with Lisp and not Python What stops newcomers is knee-jerk reactions about the (lack of) syntax, it's scary to see something that doesn't look like Algol, because everyone who does mainstream programming uses Algol-like languages. Introduce lisp to anyone who knows programming since earlier, and 99% of them will have a adverse reaction to s-expressions, before they understand what's going on. Once they understand, it makes a lot of sense obviously, but not everyone even has that kind of open mindset where they could understand if they wanted to.
- psychoslave 10mo agoSymbolic expression is one thing, I would personally find it rather cool to have more first class expression as building block everywhere. However I'm not found of using explicit parentheses all around. Even mandatory curly/square brackets are superfluous with a properly defined syntax ruleset.
- azinman2 10mo agoI find lisp to be a very non ergonomic language and am happy that python is the default.
- jimbokun 10mo agoCan you quantify that?
- speed_spread 10mo agoLet's just say that the weights of opening and closing parentheses do not cancel out.
- SoftTalker 10mo agoI've had way more issues with proper indentation in Python and YAML than I have with parenthesis in lisp. Meaningful whitespace is about the worst idea I've seen in a programming language.
- jimbokun 10mo agoYou would need to show that, including the parens, the average Lisp program requires more tokens than Python. I'm not sure that's true. Because Lisp has a lot of facilities for writing more concise code that are difficult to achieve without the parens.
- velox_neb 10mo agoMy crackpot theory is that what stops newcomers is how unergonomic "(" and ")" are to type on typical keyboards. If mainstream lisp dialects used square brackets instead, we'd all be programming in it!
- embedding-shape 10mo ago> If mainstream lisp dialects used square brackets instead, we'd all be programming in it! You've almost convinced/nerd-sniped me to write a(nother) new lisp where we'll be using brackets for forms and lists and no parenthesis in sight. It's a wild theory.
- oifjoijoifj 10mo agoIt's just a reader macro, parse out quotes, other reader macros, then replace [ -> (, ] -> ) in the rest and throw into (read).