5 ms·

For pete's sake just give everyone extra time on tests; what's the big deal? If you know the stuff, regurgitating it faster is a trivial optimization.

SoftTalker 11mo ago
How much time is enough, then? Do they get all day? A week? As long as it takes?
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 11mo ago
  Best teacher I had in university offered "unlimited time on tests". Their tests were hard as hell but they were scheduled after the last class of the day and ran until like 10 at night. It worked out to like 5 hours of test time even if most people could complete the test in like ~1.5-2 hours. The policy was essentially "you have until the teacher/TA needs to go home" and given everyone in university is always swamped with work they were generally willing to stick around and get their own work done until it got super late and even then, even if you were the last test taker they'd generally negotiate a final 10-20 minutes with heads up so you could do your best to wrap up even if you weren't done. But generally the rule is ~2x test time. The extended test time accomodation is normally listed as "double time" in my experience even if profs were generally willing to give you more than 2x time if you were still making meaningful progress.
  - bjt12345 11mo ago
    This is a fantastic idea, as the exam becomes part of the teaching - if you sit there for 5 hours wishing you prepared your study better, that's an invaluable lesson. I suspect the reason why it does not occur more commonly is simply because of the costs of running such a long exam.
    - SoftTalker 11mo ago
      A better lesson than if you sat there for 2 hours wishing you had studied?
  - eszed 11mo ago
    Yep. That's exactly what I did when I taught at the university level. Mind you, I was single then, and had no family responsibilities, and the school was small enough that I could ask for the last test slot of the day and always easily get it. But, it's excellent for everyone. It's unfortunately not practical for every class to do when everyone's taking all of their finals in the same week. There will be inevitable scheduling collisions: hence the need for timed slots and individual exceptions at alternative times and locations. If you can think of a systemic solution to that, I'm all ears. (Yeah: get rid of final exams. In theory I like that idea, too. AI is kinda pushing educators in the opposite direction at the moment.)
    - Hizonner 11mo ago
      Get rid of academic terms, so that the finals don't all fall in the same week. Probably a hard sell. Be less obsessed with evaluation and grading. Which probably means people have to be less obsessed with having a credentialing and gatekeeping system while calling it an "education" system. Probably an even harder sell. Although since the next step is for the AI to eliminate the need for credentialed humans, maybe we get it throught the back door.
      - eszed 11mo ago
        That'd be great, particularly your second suggestion. If AI ushers in a utopian age of post-scarcity gay space communism, I'll happily spend the rest of my life in graduate school.
        Hizonner 11mo ago
        I'm more expecting a dystopian age of scarce-for-you closeted space fascism, but neither one is going to have any use for your work or care what degrees you have.
        eszed 11mo ago
        Indeed, me too. If I didn't have a family, I could even deal with that: living in a closet, eating mush, and studying the golden age(s) of humanity would be... fine, I guess. I'm too old for a revolution, and I could pass what time I have left like that. But, my kid's future I worry about.
- stronglikedan 11mo ago
  Given the context of this discussion, the answer would be "whatever extra time they're giving to the disabled folks".
heisenbit 11mo ago
If you have to grade essays and you give students more time you have to spend more time on grading - taking away time from preparing lessons and supporting students individually.
hackeraccount 11mo ago
I agree with that but at the same time we've all met people who are masters of a subject matter. They tend to move pretty quickly. Speed is a shortcut to demonstrating understanding. That often seems really unfair when you don't understand a subject and then seems really pointless when you do understand it but I think there's some truth to that statement in any case.

SoftTalker 11mo ago

How much time is enough, then? Do they get all day? A week? As long as it takes?

OneDeuxTriSeiGo 11mo ago
Best teacher I had in university offered "unlimited time on tests". Their tests were hard as hell but they were scheduled after the last class of the day and ran until like 10 at night. It worked out to like 5 hours of test time even if most people could complete the test in like ~1.5-2 hours. The policy was essentially "you have until the teacher/TA needs to go home" and given everyone in university is always swamped with work they were generally willing to stick around and get their own work done until it got super late and even then, even if you were the last test taker they'd generally negotiate a final 10-20 minutes with heads up so you could do your best to wrap up even if you weren't done. But generally the rule is ~2x test time. The extended test time accomodation is normally listed as "double time" in my experience even if profs were generally willing to give you more than 2x time if you were still making meaningful progress.
- bjt12345 11mo ago
  This is a fantastic idea, as the exam becomes part of the teaching - if you sit there for 5 hours wishing you prepared your study better, that's an invaluable lesson. I suspect the reason why it does not occur more commonly is simply because of the costs of running such a long exam.
  - SoftTalker 11mo ago
    A better lesson than if you sat there for 2 hours wishing you had studied?
- eszed 11mo ago
  Yep. That's exactly what I did when I taught at the university level. Mind you, I was single then, and had no family responsibilities, and the school was small enough that I could ask for the last test slot of the day and always easily get it. But, it's excellent for everyone. It's unfortunately not practical for every class to do when everyone's taking all of their finals in the same week. There will be inevitable scheduling collisions: hence the need for timed slots and individual exceptions at alternative times and locations. If you can think of a systemic solution to that, I'm all ears. (Yeah: get rid of final exams. In theory I like that idea, too. AI is kinda pushing educators in the opposite direction at the moment.)
  - Hizonner 11mo ago
    Get rid of academic terms, so that the finals don't all fall in the same week. Probably a hard sell. Be less obsessed with evaluation and grading. Which probably means people have to be less obsessed with having a credentialing and gatekeeping system while calling it an "education" system. Probably an even harder sell. Although since the next step is for the AI to eliminate the need for credentialed humans, maybe we get it throught the back door.
    - eszed 11mo ago
      That'd be great, particularly your second suggestion. If AI ushers in a utopian age of post-scarcity gay space communism, I'll happily spend the rest of my life in graduate school.
      - Hizonner 11mo ago
        I'm more expecting a dystopian age of scarce-for-you closeted space fascism, but neither one is going to have any use for your work or care what degrees you have.
        eszed 11mo ago
        Indeed, me too. If I didn't have a family, I could even deal with that: living in a closet, eating mush, and studying the golden age(s) of humanity would be... fine, I guess. I'm too old for a revolution, and I could pass what time I have left like that. But, my kid's future I worry about.
stronglikedan 11mo ago
Given the context of this discussion, the answer would be "whatever extra time they're giving to the disabled folks".

heisenbit 11mo ago

If you have to grade essays and you give students more time you have to spend more time on grading - taking away time from preparing lessons and supporting students individually.

hackeraccount 11mo ago

I agree with that but at the same time we've all met people who are masters of a subject matter. They tend to move pretty quickly. Speed is a shortcut to demonstrating understanding. That often seems really unfair when you don't understand a subject and then seems really pointless when you do understand it but I think there's some truth to that statement in any case.