4 ms·

> Robert F. Kennedy junior, America’s health secretary, thinks that autism has become an “epidemic” in his country. His concern stems from figures from the Cent

by ceejayoz 11mo ago

> Robert F. Kennedy junior, America’s health secretary, thinks that autism has become an “epidemic” in his country. His concern stems from figures from the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, which shows that the condition now affects 32 per 1,000 eight-year-old children in America (see chart). That is in contrast, he says, with the near-absence of the condition in his childhood. Mr Kennedy was born in the 1950s, and studies estimate a prevalence of autism to around two to four per 10,000 in the 1960s. I'd note that RFK Jr.'s very own aunt was lobotomized then hidden away for something that sounds a lot like autism if diagnosed today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy

bluGill 11mo ago
Read any old book (like from the 1800s), or look into anyone's family history. There is always some version of "Larry never leaves the farm". Nobody every diagnosed "Larry" so we don't know what he had and often we only have a small fraction of the symptoms recorded, but what we have sounds suspiciously like Autism (and one of a dozen other things we now have names for)
- ceejayoz 11mo ago
  Yup. Or if they were rich, "eccentric". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bentinck,_5th_Duke_of_Portland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bentinck,_5th_Duke_of_Por... > The tunnels under the estate were reputed to have totalled 15 mi (24 km), connecting various underground chambers and above-ground buildings. They included a 1,000 yd (910 m) long tunnel between the house and the riding house, wide enough for several people to walk side by side. A more roughly constructed tunnel ran parallel to this for the use of his workmen. > The duke was highly introverted and well known for his eccentricity; he did not want to meet people and never invited anyone to his home. He employed hundreds through his various construction projects, and though well paid, the employees were not allowed to speak to him or acknowledge him. > He ventured outside mainly by night, when he was preceded by a lady servant carrying a lantern 40 yards (37 m) ahead of him. If he did walk out by day, the duke wore two overcoats, an extremely tall hat, an extremely high collar, and carried a very large umbrella behind which he tried to hide if someone addressed him. > He insisted on a chicken roasting at all hours of the day and the servants brought him his food on heated trucks that ran on rails through the tunnels.
  - DaveZale 11mo ago
    Pugsley's tunnels! The Adams Family old black and white tv show...
  - 453yuh46 11mo ago
    Hey. I have a house and I have a plans to dig tunnels under it. I will first terraform garden, so I can better access whatever is under my house. Yeah, nobody wants to speak with me anyway - they just scurry away, so no problem with that...
- SoftTalker 11mo ago
  I think this explains at least some of it. In my childhood (1970s) as best I recall, these kids were hidden away. They went to separate special education schools or a separate classroom in the main school and didn't really mix with the rest of the kids. Today the attempt is made, for better or worse, to mainstream everyone as much as possible. It still feels like there is more autism today compared to then though. I would guess that it's some combination of more people waiting to have kids until they are older, environmental factors, mania about cleanliness and sanitizing everything, maybe social factors such as putting more kids in daycare at a very young age, IDK. I'd say the same thing about asthma and food allergies too, seems that half the kids today are allergic to something, need inhalers, etc. It was unusual among my friends as a kid, at least I don't remember it being common.
  - ceejayoz 11mo ago
    > I'd say the same thing about asthma and food allergies too, seems that half the kids today are allergic to something, need inhalers, etc. I mean, if you were deathly allergic to eggs in the 1800s, you died. Very early. If smoke sent you into respiratory distress, you died. Very early. Or see the "left-handedness epidemic". It is probably not massively more prevalent now than it was in 1900s, even if that's what the stats say. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-overall-rate-of-left-handedness-in-the-data-of-Gilbert-and-Wysocki-1992-with_fig1_241783005 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-overall-rate-of-left...
    - SoftTalker 11mo ago
      No real argument, but I'm not talking about that long ago. When I was a kid, lots of parents smoked, in the house, in the car, everywhere. My father did. Yet I don't remember any of my friends having asthma or using inhalers. Peanut allergy is very common today, among my kids friends, several of them had it. Was almost unheard of when I was a kid, schools served peanut butter often at lunch. Nobody was ever asked what food allergies they had. It's possible my anecdotes are not representative, but this is just what I have observed.
      - 11mo ago
alaithea 11mo ago
It could be, but the Wikipedia article notes that she may have also suffered a birth injury from hypoxia. Rosemary's story is so tragic and heartbreaking. Her life was filled with what would today be considered multiple instances of medical malpractice, and heartless, unethical behavior on the part of the Kennedy family. Her father didn't even tell her mother about the lobotomy until after it was done. Incredible that she lived to the age of 86. The nuns taking care of her might have actually cared, which could hardly be said of the Kennedy family.
- o11c 11mo ago
  Those are not unrelated. Both from my family and from looking at the research, there's a strong correlation between long/difficult births (sometimes explicitly hypoxia) and autism.
  - marklar423 11mo ago
    Would you mind pointing me at the research you found? I've been looking for studies that correlated hypoxia and autism (and related interventions that might help) but I haven't been successful.
  - kulahan 11mo ago
    Not that long ago (in the last decade) I spoke to a researcher working to identify autism in the womb. Seems odd thing to chase if it’s caused by birth difficulties.
neilv 11mo ago
The Rosemary Kennedy story is tragic. JFK was great in some ways, but that political dynasty had serious problems even before RFK Jr. The Wikipedia article paints this as partly driven by the political aspirations of the patriarch. I suspect this is yet another example of we'd be in much better shape if the US didn't have quasi-royalty, nor families aspiring to that.
- psunavy03 11mo ago
  The only reason JFK was JFK is because his older brother was killed in an aircraft mishap in WWII. Joe Kennedy, Jr. would have gotten the big political push if he'd lived.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
joezydeco 11mo ago
[flagged]

bluGill 11mo ago

Read any old book (like from the 1800s), or look into anyone's family history. There is always some version of "Larry never leaves the farm". Nobody every diagnosed "Larry" so we don't know what he had and often we only have a small fraction of the symptoms recorded, but what we have sounds suspiciously like Autism (and one of a dozen other things we now have names for)

ceejayoz 11mo ago
Yup. Or if they were rich, "eccentric". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bentinck,_5th_Duke_of_Portland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bentinck,_5th_Duke_of_Por... > The tunnels under the estate were reputed to have totalled 15 mi (24 km), connecting various underground chambers and above-ground buildings. They included a 1,000 yd (910 m) long tunnel between the house and the riding house, wide enough for several people to walk side by side. A more roughly constructed tunnel ran parallel to this for the use of his workmen. > The duke was highly introverted and well known for his eccentricity; he did not want to meet people and never invited anyone to his home. He employed hundreds through his various construction projects, and though well paid, the employees were not allowed to speak to him or acknowledge him. > He ventured outside mainly by night, when he was preceded by a lady servant carrying a lantern 40 yards (37 m) ahead of him. If he did walk out by day, the duke wore two overcoats, an extremely tall hat, an extremely high collar, and carried a very large umbrella behind which he tried to hide if someone addressed him. > He insisted on a chicken roasting at all hours of the day and the servants brought him his food on heated trucks that ran on rails through the tunnels.
- DaveZale 11mo ago
  Pugsley's tunnels! The Adams Family old black and white tv show...
- 453yuh46 11mo ago
  Hey. I have a house and I have a plans to dig tunnels under it. I will first terraform garden, so I can better access whatever is under my house. Yeah, nobody wants to speak with me anyway - they just scurry away, so no problem with that...
SoftTalker 11mo ago
I think this explains at least some of it. In my childhood (1970s) as best I recall, these kids were hidden away. They went to separate special education schools or a separate classroom in the main school and didn't really mix with the rest of the kids. Today the attempt is made, for better or worse, to mainstream everyone as much as possible. It still feels like there is more autism today compared to then though. I would guess that it's some combination of more people waiting to have kids until they are older, environmental factors, mania about cleanliness and sanitizing everything, maybe social factors such as putting more kids in daycare at a very young age, IDK. I'd say the same thing about asthma and food allergies too, seems that half the kids today are allergic to something, need inhalers, etc. It was unusual among my friends as a kid, at least I don't remember it being common.
- ceejayoz 11mo ago
  > I'd say the same thing about asthma and food allergies too, seems that half the kids today are allergic to something, need inhalers, etc. I mean, if you were deathly allergic to eggs in the 1800s, you died. Very early. If smoke sent you into respiratory distress, you died. Very early. Or see the "left-handedness epidemic". It is probably not massively more prevalent now than it was in 1900s, even if that's what the stats say. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-overall-rate-of-left-handedness-in-the-data-of-Gilbert-and-Wysocki-1992-with_fig1_241783005 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-overall-rate-of-left...
  - SoftTalker 11mo ago
    No real argument, but I'm not talking about that long ago. When I was a kid, lots of parents smoked, in the house, in the car, everywhere. My father did. Yet I don't remember any of my friends having asthma or using inhalers. Peanut allergy is very common today, among my kids friends, several of them had it. Was almost unheard of when I was a kid, schools served peanut butter often at lunch. Nobody was ever asked what food allergies they had. It's possible my anecdotes are not representative, but this is just what I have observed.
    - 11mo ago

alaithea 11mo ago

It could be, but the Wikipedia article notes that she may have also suffered a birth injury from hypoxia. Rosemary's story is so tragic and heartbreaking. Her life was filled with what would today be considered multiple instances of medical malpractice, and heartless, unethical behavior on the part of the Kennedy family. Her father didn't even tell her mother about the lobotomy until after it was done. Incredible that she lived to the age of 86. The nuns taking care of her might have actually cared, which could hardly be said of the Kennedy family.

o11c 11mo ago
Those are not unrelated. Both from my family and from looking at the research, there's a strong correlation between long/difficult births (sometimes explicitly hypoxia) and autism.
- marklar423 11mo ago
  Would you mind pointing me at the research you found? I've been looking for studies that correlated hypoxia and autism (and related interventions that might help) but I haven't been successful.
- kulahan 11mo ago
  Not that long ago (in the last decade) I spoke to a researcher working to identify autism in the womb. Seems odd thing to chase if it’s caused by birth difficulties.

neilv 11mo ago

The Rosemary Kennedy story is tragic. JFK was great in some ways, but that political dynasty had serious problems even before RFK Jr. The Wikipedia article paints this as partly driven by the political aspirations of the patriarch. I suspect this is yet another example of we'd be in much better shape if the US didn't have quasi-royalty, nor families aspiring to that.

psunavy03 11mo ago
The only reason JFK was JFK is because his older brother was killed in an aircraft mishap in WWII. Joe Kennedy, Jr. would have gotten the big political push if he'd lived.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

joezydeco 11mo ago

[flagged]