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> I promise when I’m old, I will not have this attitude. To my ears this is a hilariously naive statement. It sounds to me to be roughly the equivalent or a 7-

> I promise when I’m old, I will not have this attitude. To my ears this is a hilariously naive statement. It sounds to me to be roughly the equivalent or a 7-year old saying "Adults have boring jobs where they sit at a desk all day. I hate it. I promise when I'm old I'm gonna be an Astronaut or play Major League Baseball." It's not that they don't mean it, it's that one should make promises about a situation they can't yet understand. While some of those kids probably did end up being astronauts or baseball players 99%+ who made that promise didn't. It turns out that being an adult gives them perspective that helps them realize the reasons they want a desk job even if they don't like it, or for many they actually enjoy their desk job (ex they like to program). So the same if a million young people all thought similarly, and then magically changed their view when they got there dont promises your going to be the one who will break the streak. You might turn out to be an astronaut, but many people listening, based on good previous evidence will rightly assume you won't.

dkdcio 10mo ago
> situation they can't yet understand you’re wrong right here — I understand. you’re just speaking nonsense and bullshit; you sound naive to me
- Nevermark 10mo ago
  Read what you just wrote. You are just declaring a belief, not making an actual point. Do you expect to learn? Get wiser? If you do, you will eventually develop wisdom that younger people don’t have yet - or may never get. Younger people find new ways to do many things better, but regress in other ways. Lacking your (and your generation’s common) experiences. Which is why the only old people who can’t see any real regression are … well I have yet to meet that kind of old person, other than those unfortunate to have dementia. Also, every new better (or perceived better) way to do things has to reinvent many obvious things all over again. Things many won’t realize were already solved by previous practices. Which takes time. So meanwhile, regressions. And there is no assurance that new ways will really be better, after all regressions are addressed. Because it is impossible to see all the implications of complex changes. Anyone who isn’t aware that the amount of today’s glue code, rewriting of common algorithms for slightly different contexts, the mush mash of different tools, platforms, and dependencies, and all their individual quirks, was a non-optimal outcome… But the current pain points will drive a new way. And so it goes. Progress is not smooth or monotonic. It is a compliment to discount that you won’t also notice. Not a critique.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - dkdcio 10mo ago
    ??? my point is someone who doesn’t know the first thing about me called me naive and made bold claims about my future that I’m certain are wrong; time will tell but there’s nothing of substance to discuss from their comment, hence my reply you’ve also just said a ton of stuff I don’t disagree with, but I’m not sure what discussion you’re trying to have here I do regret the time spent reading this article and participating in this comment section; that was naive of me!
    - Nevermark 10mo ago
      Fair enough. The word “naive” was a strong one to throw at you, but I think in the context it reflected irony and humor, not disrespect. Anyone who learns anything looks back on a naive version of themselves. I remember thinking a lot like you, too. (I don’t think things are collapsing, but do see significant unnecessary regressions in the state of programming: Madness, insanity, everywhere! :)
      - titzer 10mo ago
        > Anyone who learns anything looks back on a naive version of themselves. I remember thinking a lot like you, too. I'm so glad that for the most part in my early internet days (early 2000s), I was pseudonymous. I tended to have very strong opinions about stuff I had barely just learned and didn't have experience to get nuances. My political opinions have completely flipped and I look back on my young firebrand days and unfortunately see lots of young people repeat the same vapid shit that I believed because I was ignorant but convinced it all followed from simplistic crap ideas I was raised with.
        dkdcio 10mo ago
        > I tended to have very strong opinions about stuff I had barely just learned and didn't have experience to get nuances I don’t do this; among other differences with y’all in this thread, it’s why I’m not worried about the caution presented here
- capr 10mo ago
  way to prove his point

dkdcio 10mo ago

> situation they can't yet understand you’re wrong right here — I understand. you’re just speaking nonsense and bullshit; you sound naive to me

Nevermark 10mo ago
Read what you just wrote. You are just declaring a belief, not making an actual point. Do you expect to learn? Get wiser? If you do, you will eventually develop wisdom that younger people don’t have yet - or may never get. Younger people find new ways to do many things better, but regress in other ways. Lacking your (and your generation’s common) experiences. Which is why the only old people who can’t see any real regression are … well I have yet to meet that kind of old person, other than those unfortunate to have dementia. Also, every new better (or perceived better) way to do things has to reinvent many obvious things all over again. Things many won’t realize were already solved by previous practices. Which takes time. So meanwhile, regressions. And there is no assurance that new ways will really be better, after all regressions are addressed. Because it is impossible to see all the implications of complex changes. Anyone who isn’t aware that the amount of today’s glue code, rewriting of common algorithms for slightly different contexts, the mush mash of different tools, platforms, and dependencies, and all their individual quirks, was a non-optimal outcome… But the current pain points will drive a new way. And so it goes. Progress is not smooth or monotonic. It is a compliment to discount that you won’t also notice. Not a critique.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- dkdcio 10mo ago
  ??? my point is someone who doesn’t know the first thing about me called me naive and made bold claims about my future that I’m certain are wrong; time will tell but there’s nothing of substance to discuss from their comment, hence my reply you’ve also just said a ton of stuff I don’t disagree with, but I’m not sure what discussion you’re trying to have here I do regret the time spent reading this article and participating in this comment section; that was naive of me!
  - Nevermark 10mo ago
    Fair enough. The word “naive” was a strong one to throw at you, but I think in the context it reflected irony and humor, not disrespect. Anyone who learns anything looks back on a naive version of themselves. I remember thinking a lot like you, too. (I don’t think things are collapsing, but do see significant unnecessary regressions in the state of programming: Madness, insanity, everywhere! :)
    - titzer 10mo ago
      > Anyone who learns anything looks back on a naive version of themselves. I remember thinking a lot like you, too. I'm so glad that for the most part in my early internet days (early 2000s), I was pseudonymous. I tended to have very strong opinions about stuff I had barely just learned and didn't have experience to get nuances. My political opinions have completely flipped and I look back on my young firebrand days and unfortunately see lots of young people repeat the same vapid shit that I believed because I was ignorant but convinced it all followed from simplistic crap ideas I was raised with.
      - dkdcio 10mo ago
        > I tended to have very strong opinions about stuff I had barely just learned and didn't have experience to get nuances I don’t do this; among other differences with y’all in this thread, it’s why I’m not worried about the caution presented here
capr 10mo ago
way to prove his point