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As an European, I'd rather have a trade war, than bend 90 degrees. But the EU commission will bend and sell us out, the same way it's selling european privacy

As an European, I'd rather have a trade war, than bend 90 degrees. But the EU commission will bend and sell us out, the same way it's selling european privacy to security and data companies lobbying it (just check how many times Thorn, Palantir et al have met with EU officials, lobbying is recorded and publicly accessible).

mrdevlar 11mo ago
It's a tactic, agree to the deal, the US ignores us. Allow the deal to get destroyed in parliament and the courts and it has no effect. The deal was a means by which to get enough time to figure out the correct response. We've been doing this kind of thing for decades.
- furyg3 11mo ago
  This is the way. The current US administration is a 2 year old with ADHD and shiny distractions abound. Agree to deals and let him claim wins, and then bury it in bureaucracy and common sense. This is, essentially, how the US government survived Trump 1.0, and is why Trump 2.0 has been so concerned with gutting bureaucracy and placing vapid yes-men in the cabinet, but they can't really do that in Europe. It's one of the few times where EU bureaucracy is a huge advantage.
- consp 11mo ago
  While this is true, be ware of lobbying using it for other means.
rsynnott 11mo ago
I mean, the commission said it "intends to accept". Given the EC's legendary lightning-fast speed, that presumably puts the timeline long after ol' minihands is out of office, and thus irrelevant. Even when the EC actually _wants_ to do something, it typically struggles to get it done in under a decade.
- jeroenhd 11mo ago
  > long after ol' minihands is out of office The EC is not that slow when it comes to the American trade wars. The timeline suddenly shrinks to months instead of years because this stuff could majorly disrupt the economy (and safety) across the European continent. The EC may not fear the (mostly disinterested) European citizen body, but it does fear immediate actions by world powers.
  - disgruntledphd2 11mo ago
    > The EC is not that slow when it comes to the American trade wars. The timeline suddenly shrinks to months instead of years because this stuff could majorly disrupt the economy (and safety) across the European continent. I dunno, like the last "deal" basically makes a load of promises that the EU has no legislative ability to enforce. So it's basically just performative. And honestly, given that the US is gonna sell out Ukraine, then this (and most other) trade deals should be ripped up. This would hurt my country (and me) a lot, but it's probably still the right thing to do, as TACO is definitely a possibility if the US markets crash.
    - rsynnott 11mo ago
      Yup, in general those "trade deals" are long on vague aspirational stuff, much of it totally outside the EC's power to grant, and short on promises. Notably the EU "trade deal" includes _private investment_ in the US; obviously the EU cannot direct or really influence private investment in the US, and indeed the figure quoted is about the amount of Europe-sourced private investment one would expect in US in the normal course of things. Honestly I suspect Trump _knows_ this, too; the point of the trade deals is not to be substantive but to give Trump something with impressive numbers to boast about, and both sides are fully aware of this.
jimbohn 11mo ago
The problem with accepting yet another blackmail (or else trade war, or else NATO doesn't really exist anymore) is just a slippery slope. Not the first request that was made like this, not the last. >lobbying is recorded and publicly accessible As in the meeting dates or the actual talks? Mind dropping a link?
- epolanski 11mo ago
  https://transparency-register.europa.eu/search-register-or-update/search-register_en https://transparency-register.europa.eu/search-register-or-u... For each lobbying company/group you can download a pdf listing all their activities. Of course, we don't know what happens beyond the official encounters, as there is no legal requirement to report "I bumped into X lobbyist in a restaurant and we had a chat".
  - jimbohn 11mo ago
    I see, interesting, thank you. Yeah, sadly this could be just transparency theater, glad it's there, it's a start.
intended 11mo ago
Since when was Thorn in the same sentence as Palantir?
- drcongo 11mo ago
  https://omen.fandom.com/wiki/Thorn_Industries https://omen.fandom.com/wiki/Thorn_Industries
peroxy 11mo ago
That's why you'll always be europoor.

mrdevlar 11mo ago

It's a tactic, agree to the deal, the US ignores us. Allow the deal to get destroyed in parliament and the courts and it has no effect. The deal was a means by which to get enough time to figure out the correct response. We've been doing this kind of thing for decades.

furyg3 11mo ago
This is the way. The current US administration is a 2 year old with ADHD and shiny distractions abound. Agree to deals and let him claim wins, and then bury it in bureaucracy and common sense. This is, essentially, how the US government survived Trump 1.0, and is why Trump 2.0 has been so concerned with gutting bureaucracy and placing vapid yes-men in the cabinet, but they can't really do that in Europe. It's one of the few times where EU bureaucracy is a huge advantage.
consp 11mo ago
While this is true, be ware of lobbying using it for other means.

rsynnott 11mo ago

I mean, the commission said it "intends to accept". Given the EC's legendary lightning-fast speed, that presumably puts the timeline long after ol' minihands is out of office, and thus irrelevant. Even when the EC actually _wants_ to do something, it typically struggles to get it done in under a decade.

jeroenhd 11mo ago
> long after ol' minihands is out of office The EC is not that slow when it comes to the American trade wars. The timeline suddenly shrinks to months instead of years because this stuff could majorly disrupt the economy (and safety) across the European continent. The EC may not fear the (mostly disinterested) European citizen body, but it does fear immediate actions by world powers.
- disgruntledphd2 11mo ago
  > The EC is not that slow when it comes to the American trade wars. The timeline suddenly shrinks to months instead of years because this stuff could majorly disrupt the economy (and safety) across the European continent. I dunno, like the last "deal" basically makes a load of promises that the EU has no legislative ability to enforce. So it's basically just performative. And honestly, given that the US is gonna sell out Ukraine, then this (and most other) trade deals should be ripped up. This would hurt my country (and me) a lot, but it's probably still the right thing to do, as TACO is definitely a possibility if the US markets crash.
  - rsynnott 11mo ago
    Yup, in general those "trade deals" are long on vague aspirational stuff, much of it totally outside the EC's power to grant, and short on promises. Notably the EU "trade deal" includes _private investment_ in the US; obviously the EU cannot direct or really influence private investment in the US, and indeed the figure quoted is about the amount of Europe-sourced private investment one would expect in US in the normal course of things. Honestly I suspect Trump _knows_ this, too; the point of the trade deals is not to be substantive but to give Trump something with impressive numbers to boast about, and both sides are fully aware of this.

jimbohn 11mo ago

The problem with accepting yet another blackmail (or else trade war, or else NATO doesn't really exist anymore) is just a slippery slope. Not the first request that was made like this, not the last. >lobbying is recorded and publicly accessible As in the meeting dates or the actual talks? Mind dropping a link?

epolanski 11mo ago
https://transparency-register.europa.eu/search-register-or-update/search-register_en https://transparency-register.europa.eu/search-register-or-u... For each lobbying company/group you can download a pdf listing all their activities. Of course, we don't know what happens beyond the official encounters, as there is no legal requirement to report "I bumped into X lobbyist in a restaurant and we had a chat".
- jimbohn 11mo ago
  I see, interesting, thank you. Yeah, sadly this could be just transparency theater, glad it's there, it's a start.

intended 11mo ago

Since when was Thorn in the same sentence as Palantir?

drcongo 11mo ago
https://omen.fandom.com/wiki/Thorn_Industries https://omen.fandom.com/wiki/Thorn_Industries

peroxy 11mo ago

That's why you'll always be europoor.