4 ms·

It's unfortunate there wasn't more resistance by tech employees to RTO post-covid. It seemed like one of the very, very rare solutions to the systemic problems

It's unfortunate there wasn't more resistance by tech employees to RTO post-covid. It seemed like one of the very, very rare solutions to the systemic problems of housing and commuting in the US. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that WFH effectively doubles or even triples your total compensation when it means (a) actually affordable housing and (b) no time/money lost to commuting, especially if you have kids.

paxys 11mo ago
Because these mandates coincided with a recession and the worst tech job market in a couple decades, and saying no meant you'd potentially be unemployed for a very long time.
- zem 11mo ago
  "coincided" is understating it; it is precisely the bad job market that leads to this sort of mandate, because employees have little choice but to go along. in a good job market companies are very willing to offer remote work as an incentive to join them rather than the competition.
- OGEnthusiast 11mo ago
  Yes, it would require a lot more coordinated organizing and some level of pain, though I think the payoff would be worth it.
venturecruelty 11mo ago
Because there's a five-letter scare word you're not allowed to say that would be required for tech workers to have any power over their managers, but that sort of collective action is dead on arrival in the current milieu. If you don't want to go back into the office, you have the power to enforce that, but you have to like... work together.
- alliao 11mo ago
  even though biden's already left I am still quite surprised how little views his pro union videos got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZpUD9KgYc4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZpUD9KgYc4 this video was on whitehouse's youtube channel
- VirusNewbie 11mo ago
  no one wants to work at shops that actually have unions compared to other places. it's just silly to actually suggest it makes things better.
  - venturecruelty 11mo ago
    Yeah, speak for yourself. I'd love to work at a place where I can't be fired because my manager had a bad day and I didn't move the right Jira tickets around to his satisfaction, where I'm treated like a human being in stead of fungible cattle. I also don't want to go back into an office. Ever. But if people actually want to affect change at their workplace, instead of just kvetching, that's basically the only way to do it, short of praying to Money Jesus for another ZIRP boom like the 2010s (I'm not a praying man, but I wouldn't hold my breath). I'm just saying, if workers want control over their working conditions, they have to recognize the power they have. It's up to them if they decide to wield it. You don't have to, and that's fine! Enjoy your long Bay Area commute.
    - VirusNewbie 11mo ago
      There are companies in the US that have engineering unions. Boeing is one. You're going to tell me you'd rather work at Boeing over Apple or Google?
      - filleduchaos 11mo ago
        ...yes? Is that supposed to be a hard question? No, seriously, literally what does Apple or Google have over Boeing as a company to work at? Compensation? If money is all that matters to you, then there are several Web3/AI/etc startups offering absurd cash comp that you can go and throw yourself at.
        VirusNewbie 11mo ago
        literally what does Apple or Google have over Boeing as a company to work at Smarter coworkers. Better engineering culture. Better benefits. More time off. Bosses with engineering chops. More flexible schedules. Less likely to get laid off. Perks like free food/massages/events. Equity so as the company grows your pay increases automatically. Large bonuses. Are you actually serious you'd rather work at Boeing?

paxys 11mo ago

Because these mandates coincided with a recession and the worst tech job market in a couple decades, and saying no meant you'd potentially be unemployed for a very long time.

zem 11mo ago
"coincided" is understating it; it is precisely the bad job market that leads to this sort of mandate, because employees have little choice but to go along. in a good job market companies are very willing to offer remote work as an incentive to join them rather than the competition.
OGEnthusiast 11mo ago
Yes, it would require a lot more coordinated organizing and some level of pain, though I think the payoff would be worth it.

venturecruelty 11mo ago

Because there's a five-letter scare word you're not allowed to say that would be required for tech workers to have any power over their managers, but that sort of collective action is dead on arrival in the current milieu. If you don't want to go back into the office, you have the power to enforce that, but you have to like... work together.

alliao 11mo ago
even though biden's already left I am still quite surprised how little views his pro union videos got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZpUD9KgYc4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZpUD9KgYc4 this video was on whitehouse's youtube channel
VirusNewbie 11mo ago
no one wants to work at shops that actually have unions compared to other places. it's just silly to actually suggest it makes things better.
- venturecruelty 11mo ago
  Yeah, speak for yourself. I'd love to work at a place where I can't be fired because my manager had a bad day and I didn't move the right Jira tickets around to his satisfaction, where I'm treated like a human being in stead of fungible cattle. I also don't want to go back into an office. Ever. But if people actually want to affect change at their workplace, instead of just kvetching, that's basically the only way to do it, short of praying to Money Jesus for another ZIRP boom like the 2010s (I'm not a praying man, but I wouldn't hold my breath). I'm just saying, if workers want control over their working conditions, they have to recognize the power they have. It's up to them if they decide to wield it. You don't have to, and that's fine! Enjoy your long Bay Area commute.
  - VirusNewbie 11mo ago
    There are companies in the US that have engineering unions. Boeing is one. You're going to tell me you'd rather work at Boeing over Apple or Google?
    - filleduchaos 11mo ago
      ...yes? Is that supposed to be a hard question? No, seriously, literally what does Apple or Google have over Boeing as a company to work at? Compensation? If money is all that matters to you, then there are several Web3/AI/etc startups offering absurd cash comp that you can go and throw yourself at.
      - VirusNewbie 11mo ago
        literally what does Apple or Google have over Boeing as a company to work at Smarter coworkers. Better engineering culture. Better benefits. More time off. Bosses with engineering chops. More flexible schedules. Less likely to get laid off. Perks like free food/massages/events. Equity so as the company grows your pay increases automatically. Large bonuses. Are you actually serious you'd rather work at Boeing?