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Ftfa (the part I could read) “ growth is buoyed by an exuberant stockmarket and artificial-intelligence investment, while ordinary Americans languish” Black Fr
by chasd00 11mo ago
Ftfa (the part I could read) “ growth is buoyed by an exuberant stockmarket and artificial-intelligence investment, while ordinary Americans languish”
Black Friday sales set records and it not even cyber Monday. If Americans are languishing then shouldn’t holiday spending be down?
- port11 11mo agoOthers have pointed out the brackets really buying, but I'd also argue that people deferring their purchases to a period of sales is generally not a good thing.
- seanmcdirmid 11mo agoShouldn’t every year be a record considering population growth and inflation?
- eru 11mo agoYou could look at inflation adjusted per-capita sales, of course.
- seanmcdirmid 11mo agoYa, when I ask Gemini: While there isn't a definitive inflation-adjusted per-capita number for 2025, recent data indicates that overall sales growth was outpaced by inflation, meaning consumers likely bought fewer items. Total Black Friday spending was up, but the average number of items purchased declined. For instance, Salesforce reported total spending was up 3% but order volume was down 2%, with average selling prices climbing 7%. ... Per-capita sales: The increase in spending is largely driven by higher prices, meaning the actual volume of goods purchased per person likely decreased compared to the previous year, even with higher total spending, says The New York Times.
- philamonster 11mo agoI didn't buy shit on purpose this weekend, like every year and like most weekends. Some people do that. I wish more would.
- bitwize 11mo agoOne of the truly great things about American toxic individualism is that it need not be constrained by rationality; American capitalism finds ways around that. Need to Christmas shop for everyone in your family but don't have enough actual income? Simply go into massive credit card debt! You're probably pre-approved for several cards already; check for our flyer!
- nrhrjrjrjtntbt 11mo agoBlack friday is a datapoint. But maybe people are deferring purchases to these sale periods. What proportion of goods were luxury vs. not. Also poor people can get into debt they are still poor. Maybe they can afford a nintendo switch but not afford to raise a family.
- thinkingtoilet 11mo agoThe only things I bought on Black Friday were things I would normally have bought but just waited a few weeks/months to get.
- SoftTalker 11mo agoSame among people I know. My MIL needed to replace some kitchen appliances and waited for BF sales.
- kshacker 11mo agoDeferring sales is one datapoint. But setting records is another datapoint and counter to deferring IMO. Edit there is talk below of inflation adjusted numbers being high but meh
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- tomrod 11mo agoK shaped economy with increasing expenditure means the wealthier increase their spending as a portion of the economy and at an absolute level. It is not interpreted as the polity doing well - if anything, it is cause for concern.
- Ericson2314 11mo agoThe wealthy don't buy more crap on black Friday. Inequality is very visible in terms of what sort of consumption occurs. Gotta look at the qualitatives.
- alfalfasprout 11mo agoSure they do. And during the holiday season too.
- zerosizedweasle 11mo agoWealthy people love feeling like they are getting a deal.
- Ericson2314 11mo agoI would not expect wealthy people to be more price sensitive over all.
- Libidinalecon 11mo agoI don't know if it is just the wealthy either. The retired middle class boomers I know are completely outside the business cycle. While I don't think they have enough to really be considered wealthy, they have no mortgage payment, a social security check, a pension and most have a 401k. The business cycle will not change their spending one bit.
- AnimalMuppet 11mo agoIt may, a bit. If the 401k is in the stock market, and the stock market is down, their total visible money is down. That tends to decrease enthusiasm for spending.
- alfalfasprout 11mo agoNot necessarily. Lots of explanations: (1) People wait for when they perceive they'll get the best deals to do their shopping. (2) K-shaped economy (data is already bearing this out btw): Spending from the wealthy is driving consumption figures vs. the bulk of the population (3) Anxiety about rising prices cause people to purchase now vs. later. See for example RAM prices.
- AuthAuth 11mo agothe country is growing so it will commonly "set records". We need to look at it in the context of previous years. Before I went and checked the stats I expected to see instore shopping to be down since americans are poorer than previous years and online shopping to be up since demand is growing and online caters to a worldwide audience. Checking the stats online growth is up and on par with previous years creating that record breaking stat. Instore numbers arent out yet but some figures are claiming less foot traffic in stores compared with previous years. So i'd say to early to really call if spending was down(compared with expectations)
- jinushaun 11mo agoDon’t underestimate credit cards and consumerism.
- anon373839 11mo agoThe rise in Black Friday sales is misleading because the sales reflect inflation rather than increased consumer demand.
- vandal8ind 11mo ago[dead]
- listenallyall 11mo agoI think it is more that a greater number of products were heavily marketed by a greater number of companies. My social feeds were flooded with single-product companies and online-only companies aggressively selling all kinds of gear and gadgets. Travel pillows (like 5 different brands), ski socks, luggage, exercise equipment, etc etc. Not gonna lie, I bought some stuff I likely would not have otherwise!
- master_crab 11mo agoBlack Friday did not set records. Bloomberg stated that it was up 4.1%, but that was not inflation adjusted. So it was just slightly higher than flat. Not necessarily a bad thing…but not great either. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-29/black-friday-sales-rise-underscoring-us-consumers-resilience https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-29/black-fri...
- jeffbee 11mo agoYou also have to adjust such things for population, which was up about .6% in August vs. last August, the latest data we have.
- 3eb7988a1663 11mo agoLast report I saw said US population was set to drop this year - first time in 250 years. With our demographic boomer bubble, continually dropping fertility, and anti-immigration stance, the trend is likely to continue.
- jeffbee 11mo agoWith the growth we already had in 2025 you'd have to nuke LA to end the year with a decline.
- johnnyanmac 11mo agohttps://www.pew.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2025/03/05/population-growth-in-most-states-outpaced-long-term-trends-in-2024 https://www.pew.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2025/0... Most population growth was due to immigration for a while, and immigration (for obvious reasons in 2025) is way, way down. https://www.derekthompson.org/p/the-us-population-could-shrink-in https://www.derekthompson.org/p/the-us-population-could-shri... what's your report? >you'd have to nuke LA Let's not give this administration ideas, please.
- 11mo ago
- listenallyall 11mo agoBlack Friday has become Cyber Monday as well. Everyone has a phone, nobody is waiting to log on to their PC at work to do some online shopping. The holiday season on the whole is a much better indicator, not just one single day. And even then, spending needs to be checked against debt incurred.
- garciasn 11mo agoBlack Friday started weeks before the actual day in order to increase the spending. It’s not an apples to apples comparison to prior years.
- listenallyall 11mo agoAs a marketing term yes but the Bloomberg analysis is only looking at the actual single day following Thanksgiving.
- 3Mathematicians 11mo agoConsumers in the top 10% of the income distribution accounted for 49.2% of total spending, per Bloomberg. If anything, in my opinion, this strengthens the k-shaped economic growth stat that the article mentions.
- master_crab 11mo agoYup, only the rich are powering this economy now. That bodes poorly for the country’s stability long term.
- almosthere 11mo agocan also look at it as an opportunity to gather friends and start a small drywall company. Those are in demand, for example. The rich are building more buildings than ever. If you live in the bay area, you can very well see 300k / year if you keep yourself busy.
- estearum 11mo agoThen if you're successful, you can sell it to a PE firm where it will further buoy the rich! Can't see how this positive feedback loop gets us to a bad place at all!
- refurb 11mo agoTop 10% is a household making more than $191k so a couple making $95k each. Rich indeed!
- JumpCrisscross 11mo agoGenerally speaking, the rich is anyone who makes slightly more than you.
- refurb 11mo agoIt's like the saying about alcoholics - "an alcoholic is anyone who drinks 1 more drink than you".
- Jupe 11mo agoA few observations: 1. I saw the same headline - the article stated that there were record SEASON sales, not Black Friday sales. The headline did not match the content of the article. 2. Record revenue, not necessarily record units sold. To be expected with inflation. 3. Savvy online shoppers may be bundling purchases to reduce shipping costs. Waiting for a seasonal sale to buy holiday gifts as well as detergent, snacks and underwear may be quite prudent. Finally, increased sales revenue does not necessarily equate to more jobs. It can, but by no means does it have to.
- eru 11mo ago> Ftfa (the part I could read) [...] https://archive.is/NvSXc https://archive.is/NvSXc
- programmertote 11mo agoI postponed all of my CPG and miscellaneous purchases (think AA batteries, socks, winter pants, skin lotion, body wash, etc.) until Black Friday "sales". I also stocked up on stuff like Ramen. I did NOT buy anything special for myself (e.g., I really wanted Switch 2, but I think it's too overpriced and decided not to pull the trigger). I'd not be surprised if a good number of people did the same. PLUS, the prices rose by quite a bit between the start of the year and now. So we need to see if this increase is sales match up to inflation (which, unfortunately, would be more difficult to rely on knowing that that metric has become politicized.)
- DaveZale 11mo agofwiw the Tokyo noodle packs' price actually dropped, if instant noodles is one of your staples.
- dudus 11mo agoSame here. My big purchase for Black Friday last year was an OLED TV. This year was prescription glasses.
- benmw333 11mo agobf related, I bought: 1) trail mix 2) licorice 3) books on diy house / carpentry not bf related but happened this week: 1) cv axles for my car ~500 and will install myself i am employed and just make it into 6 figures $110k, which apparently is poverty level now if you have a few dependents. i consider myself fortunate.
- Iwan-Zotow 11mo agoPop growth of ca .5 pct and inflation delivered said record
- csomar 11mo agoThe volume is down. What actually increased is the $$ value.
- vannevar 11mo agoNot necessarily. Average income can be up substantially at the same time that median income remains flat or even declines. This means that it is possible for spending by wealthier Americans to make up for sales lost from the unemployed middle class and poor.
- untwerp 11mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipstick_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipstick_effect
- johnnyanmac 11mo ago>Ftfa (the part I could read) You did in fact not rtfm? >Black Friday sales set records and it not even cyber Monday. https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/29/business/black-friday-us-econony-spending https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/29/business/black-friday-us-econ... I don't know where you're seeing "record numbers". 2024 wasn't a great year and you can argue spending was flat from that after inflation. I think the more relevant factor is "who" is spending the money in such a k-shaped economy. .
- jameslk 11mo agoK-shaped economy is the buzz word these days
- intended 11mo agoThe market is diverging with people who are in the upper echelons having money to spend and everyone else having nothing. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2025/11/25/us-economy-spending-rich/87453670007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2025/11/25/us-e... The K shaped economy.