4 ms·

I know this is the noob perspective but they should try (yes, I'm already aware of GhostBSD) to make getting into the desktop a little bit easier, it can be ver

by alex1138 11mo ago

I know this is the noob perspective but they should try (yes, I'm already aware of GhostBSD) to make getting into the desktop a little bit easier, it can be very hard to bootstrap anything and learn if you're new to it

shevy-java 11mo ago
That's where Linux fails too IMO. Both GNOME and KDE really suck in my opinion. Or perhaps suck is too strong a word. I find both to be hugely problematic. That does not mean they do not work, mind you - GNOME succeeds in dumbing things down that even 60 years old grandmas could use it (until they misclick and then are presented with 20 windows all put side to side). And KDE gives a lot of flexibility in tweaking it how you may want it (if we ignore Nate's donation widget). But it just is still waaaaaaay too complicated and convoluted to use. I am better off just describing my system in .yml files and then have ruby autogenerate any configuration value than struggle through annoying widgets to find some semi-random semi-new setting (or none such setting existing such as is the case in GNOME). I'd wish we could liberate these DEs from upstream developers and their dictatorship. I mean, we, can, e. g. patch out the code that shouldn't exist (like Nate's Robin Hood widget), but I mean on a global basis as-is. We as users should be in full control of EVERYTHING - every widget. Everything these widgets do, too. And everything they don't do right now but should do. Like in evince, I hate that I can't have tabs. That annoys me. I am aware that libpapers changes this, but boy ... just try to discuss this with GNOMEy devs. That's just a waste of time. I want to decide on everything here - upstream must not be able to cripple my system or influence it in no way I approve of.
- jwrallie 11mo ago
  Hmm... I am sure your yaml config files would also not please your grandma. Anyway if you don't like change, there are other DEs apart from those two are more fitting. Try XFCE or Mate, they will look and behave the same years after setting them up.
- wkat4242 11mo ago
  I love KDE. Especially because it gives me agency. I'm not stuck with the choices the developers made like with gnome that's super opinionated. And I find things easy to find and confuse. It's probably not for a grandma but I don't care. It doesn't have to be. For me the more software is suitable for the mainstream, the less suitable it is to me. Not sure what you mean by donation widget, I use KDE on FreeBSD as daily driver (and on the latest version) and I've never seen it. I donate monthly to KDE but it doesn't have any way of knowing that.
  - BoredomIsFun 11mo ago
    I do not like KDE, I'd rather user Gnome, but KDE is massively better at fractional scaling on 4k and hidpi monitors.
assimpleaspossi 11mo ago
After you install the base system, install your favorite desktop by doing "pkg install <your_favorite_desktop>" and it's done. What's so difficult?
- alex1138 11mo ago
  "Before FreeBSD can render a graphical environment, it needs a kernel module to drive the graphics processor. Graphics drivers are a fast-moving, cross-platform target, which is why this is developed and distributed separately from the FreeBSD base system." "To enable the driver, add the module to /etc/rc.conf file, by executing the following command: ..." https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/x11/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/x11/ I get that this isn't brain surgery. But come on
  - assimpleaspossi 11mo ago
    And, again, "pkg install <your_favorite_desktop>" done. Quit pulling blurbs out of thin air when you don't know how it works.
    - alex1138 11mo ago
      Linking directly to documentation is thin air?
    - quesera 11mo ago
      The truth is that FreeBSD doesn't want casual users, though. The Linux (Ubuntu, etc) install experience leads to a usable desktop. Heck, the installer disc boots to a usable desktop. Also no unsophisticated users even know the name of their favorite DE. Or what a DE is. Requiring a text login and a shell command, even one as simple as "pkg install KDE" is a big ask for a casual user these days. Also, that command line will probably fail. :) I write these things as a very big fan of FreeBSD! I think not catering to casual users keeps FreeBSD in a better technical place overall, but Linux is obviously much more popular. This carries risks too.
      - 11mo ago
grahamjperrin 11mo ago
The current expectation is that the desktop script, which was originally scheduled for inclusion with FreeBSD Installer for 15.0, will be included with 15.1. A blocker, although this bug was not the reason for rescheduling: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=290024 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=290024

shevy-java 11mo ago

That's where Linux fails too IMO. Both GNOME and KDE really suck in my opinion. Or perhaps suck is too strong a word. I find both to be hugely problematic. That does not mean they do not work, mind you - GNOME succeeds in dumbing things down that even 60 years old grandmas could use it (until they misclick and then are presented with 20 windows all put side to side). And KDE gives a lot of flexibility in tweaking it how you may want it (if we ignore Nate's donation widget). But it just is still waaaaaaay too complicated and convoluted to use. I am better off just describing my system in .yml files and then have ruby autogenerate any configuration value than struggle through annoying widgets to find some semi-random semi-new setting (or none such setting existing such as is the case in GNOME). I'd wish we could liberate these DEs from upstream developers and their dictatorship. I mean, we, can, e. g. patch out the code that shouldn't exist (like Nate's Robin Hood widget), but I mean on a global basis as-is. We as users should be in full control of EVERYTHING - every widget. Everything these widgets do, too. And everything they don't do right now but should do. Like in evince, I hate that I can't have tabs. That annoys me. I am aware that libpapers changes this, but boy ... just try to discuss this with GNOMEy devs. That's just a waste of time. I want to decide on everything here - upstream must not be able to cripple my system or influence it in no way I approve of.

jwrallie 11mo ago
Hmm... I am sure your yaml config files would also not please your grandma. Anyway if you don't like change, there are other DEs apart from those two are more fitting. Try XFCE or Mate, they will look and behave the same years after setting them up.
wkat4242 11mo ago
I love KDE. Especially because it gives me agency. I'm not stuck with the choices the developers made like with gnome that's super opinionated. And I find things easy to find and confuse. It's probably not for a grandma but I don't care. It doesn't have to be. For me the more software is suitable for the mainstream, the less suitable it is to me. Not sure what you mean by donation widget, I use KDE on FreeBSD as daily driver (and on the latest version) and I've never seen it. I donate monthly to KDE but it doesn't have any way of knowing that.
- BoredomIsFun 11mo ago
  I do not like KDE, I'd rather user Gnome, but KDE is massively better at fractional scaling on 4k and hidpi monitors.

assimpleaspossi 11mo ago

After you install the base system, install your favorite desktop by doing "pkg install <your_favorite_desktop>" and it's done. What's so difficult?

alex1138 11mo ago
"Before FreeBSD can render a graphical environment, it needs a kernel module to drive the graphics processor. Graphics drivers are a fast-moving, cross-platform target, which is why this is developed and distributed separately from the FreeBSD base system." "To enable the driver, add the module to /etc/rc.conf file, by executing the following command: ..." https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/x11/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/x11/ I get that this isn't brain surgery. But come on
- assimpleaspossi 11mo ago
  And, again, "pkg install <your_favorite_desktop>" done. Quit pulling blurbs out of thin air when you don't know how it works.
  - alex1138 11mo ago
    Linking directly to documentation is thin air?
  - quesera 11mo ago
    The truth is that FreeBSD doesn't want casual users, though. The Linux (Ubuntu, etc) install experience leads to a usable desktop. Heck, the installer disc boots to a usable desktop. Also no unsophisticated users even know the name of their favorite DE. Or what a DE is. Requiring a text login and a shell command, even one as simple as "pkg install KDE" is a big ask for a casual user these days. Also, that command line will probably fail. :) I write these things as a very big fan of FreeBSD! I think not catering to casual users keeps FreeBSD in a better technical place overall, but Linux is obviously much more popular. This carries risks too.
    - 11mo ago

grahamjperrin 11mo ago

The current expectation is that the desktop script, which was originally scheduled for inclusion with FreeBSD Installer for 15.0, will be included with 15.1. A blocker, although this bug was not the reason for rescheduling: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=290024 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=290024