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Don't forget the death and pointless carnage as downsides. Bombing fishing boats, saying it's "drugs" and using that to justify a war in our back-porch is insa

by cogman10 11mo ago

Don't forget the death and pointless carnage as downsides. Bombing fishing boats, saying it's "drugs" and using that to justify a war in our back-porch is insanity. Who even supports this? It seems like the most unjustified war we've ever started.

amanaplanacanal 11mo ago
This feels even more manufactured than the Iraq invasion. I don't understand why Trump would do something like this which is gonna peel off yet another group of his supporters. Maybe he just thinks he's invincible now? He must feel like this helps him politically somehow, but I can't figure out how.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  > he must feel like this helps him politically somehow, but I can't figure out how Distracts from a tariff-ravaged economy and the Epstein files. Potentially lets him funnel defence spending to allies.
  - blibble 11mo ago
    > Potentially lets him funnel defence spending to allies. it won't have any even the UK has decided not to support the US regime on this one
    - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
      > it won't have any Political allies. David Sacks, et cetera.
  - derwiki 11mo ago
    Genuinely curious: what stats back up “tariff-ravaged economy”? S&P is essentially at an all-time high
    - crote 11mo ago
      And how much of that is felt by real-world people? The insane stock price of Nvidia & friends due to them passing around billions between each other doesn't matter even the slightest bit when your family business is going bankrupt.
    - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
      > what stats back up “tariff-ravaged economy”? S&P is essentially at an all-time high Production is good, you're right. Where Trump is feeling electoral pain is in cost of living. It's why the U.S. has started lifting "tariffs on bananas, coffee and dozens of other food-related items" [1]. [1] https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/trump-tariff-exemptions-food-prices-59e72b1d https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/trump-tariff-exemptions-fo...
    - amanaplanacanal 11mo ago
      Unemployment and inflation numbers are probably more important indicators of economic health for most people than the stock market. The stock market might be good for the capital-owning class though.
- flag_fagger 11mo ago
  > I don't understand why Trump would do something like this which is gonna peel off yet another group of his supporters The guy was like a walking auction item as soon as he started his second term. He’s nearly 80. He’s gonna amass a nice fortune for his family and dip. Come on man, the guy was shilling his own shitcoin as sitting president.
- mc32 11mo ago
  I don’t see much upside either other than a regime change that brings some semblance of mediocrity back to the country. Currently millions of Venezuelans languish somewhat unwanted in other LatAm counties. They’d jump at going back home to be part of the rebuild — which can happen. Before Chavistas it was the richest country in LatAm and they can absolutely regain that title with even a mildly competent government.
- cocoalba 11mo ago
  The Iran strikes gave him a taste for blood. He liked it
JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
> Who even supports this? Over a third of each of 2024 Trump voters and self-identified conservatives consider Venezuela America's "enemy" [1]. (Over two fifths of each of the male, Hispanic, 65+ and $100k+ income demos view Maduro unfavourably.) Also, "weapons and AI platforms that were designed for a future conflict with China or struggled to prove themselves on the Ukrainian battlefield have found a niche in the administration’s tech-enabled crackdown on drug trafficking" [2]. ("In an interview, Palantir Technologies Chief Executive Alex Karp declined to say whether his company’s technology was involved in counternarcotics operations, but voiced support for the strikes. 'If we are involved, I am very proud,' Karp said.") [1] https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_jFUbNEH.pdf#page=38 https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabRepor... The Economist/YouGov, November 15 to 17, U.S. Adult Citizens [2] https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/trumps-focus-on-drug-war-means-big-business-for-defense-startups-04f45ce8 https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/trumps-focus-...
- clanky 11mo ago
  One third is really not a solid base of support for major military action, especially among the administration's staunchest supporters. My purely subjective impression is that there is plenty of doubt in the ranks of MAGA about this, Fox News consent manufacturing notwithstanding. Of course, the imperatives of imperialism being what they are, I don't think it makes much difference.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
scruple 11mo ago
It seems like an easy move to make to me. If you say it's WMDs, you have to eventually turn out the WMDs. If you say it's cocaine, well there's plenty of coke in Venezuela. It's dead simple to tie it to Maduro and label him a drug lord as justification.
- cogman10 11mo ago
  WMDs posed a threat to the surrounding nations and the US. Coke is a threat primarily to coke addicts. We didn't, for example, invade Afghanistan because of the poppy fields.

amanaplanacanal 11mo ago

This feels even more manufactured than the Iraq invasion. I don't understand why Trump would do something like this which is gonna peel off yet another group of his supporters. Maybe he just thinks he's invincible now? He must feel like this helps him politically somehow, but I can't figure out how.

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
> he must feel like this helps him politically somehow, but I can't figure out how Distracts from a tariff-ravaged economy and the Epstein files. Potentially lets him funnel defence spending to allies.
- blibble 11mo ago
  > Potentially lets him funnel defence spending to allies. it won't have any even the UK has decided not to support the US regime on this one
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > it won't have any Political allies. David Sacks, et cetera.
- derwiki 11mo ago
  Genuinely curious: what stats back up “tariff-ravaged economy”? S&P is essentially at an all-time high
  - crote 11mo ago
    And how much of that is felt by real-world people? The insane stock price of Nvidia & friends due to them passing around billions between each other doesn't matter even the slightest bit when your family business is going bankrupt.
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > what stats back up “tariff-ravaged economy”? S&P is essentially at an all-time high Production is good, you're right. Where Trump is feeling electoral pain is in cost of living. It's why the U.S. has started lifting "tariffs on bananas, coffee and dozens of other food-related items" [1]. [1] https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/trump-tariff-exemptions-food-prices-59e72b1d https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/trump-tariff-exemptions-fo...
  - amanaplanacanal 11mo ago
    Unemployment and inflation numbers are probably more important indicators of economic health for most people than the stock market. The stock market might be good for the capital-owning class though.
flag_fagger 11mo ago
> I don't understand why Trump would do something like this which is gonna peel off yet another group of his supporters The guy was like a walking auction item as soon as he started his second term. He’s nearly 80. He’s gonna amass a nice fortune for his family and dip. Come on man, the guy was shilling his own shitcoin as sitting president.
mc32 11mo ago
I don’t see much upside either other than a regime change that brings some semblance of mediocrity back to the country. Currently millions of Venezuelans languish somewhat unwanted in other LatAm counties. They’d jump at going back home to be part of the rebuild — which can happen. Before Chavistas it was the richest country in LatAm and they can absolutely regain that title with even a mildly competent government.
cocoalba 11mo ago
The Iran strikes gave him a taste for blood. He liked it

JumpCrisscross 11mo ago

> Who even supports this? Over a third of each of 2024 Trump voters and self-identified conservatives consider Venezuela America's "enemy" [1]. (Over two fifths of each of the male, Hispanic, 65+ and $100k+ income demos view Maduro unfavourably.) Also, "weapons and AI platforms that were designed for a future conflict with China or struggled to prove themselves on the Ukrainian battlefield have found a niche in the administration’s tech-enabled crackdown on drug trafficking" [2]. ("In an interview, Palantir Technologies Chief Executive Alex Karp declined to say whether his company’s technology was involved in counternarcotics operations, but voiced support for the strikes. 'If we are involved, I am very proud,' Karp said.") [1] https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_jFUbNEH.pdf#page=38 https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabRepor... The Economist/YouGov, November 15 to 17, U.S. Adult Citizens [2] https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/trumps-focus-on-drug-war-means-big-business-for-defense-startups-04f45ce8 https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/trumps-focus-...

clanky 11mo ago
One third is really not a solid base of support for major military action, especially among the administration's staunchest supporters. My purely subjective impression is that there is plenty of doubt in the ranks of MAGA about this, Fox News consent manufacturing notwithstanding. Of course, the imperatives of imperialism being what they are, I don't think it makes much difference.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]

scruple 11mo ago

It seems like an easy move to make to me. If you say it's WMDs, you have to eventually turn out the WMDs. If you say it's cocaine, well there's plenty of coke in Venezuela. It's dead simple to tie it to Maduro and label him a drug lord as justification.

cogman10 11mo ago
WMDs posed a threat to the surrounding nations and the US. Coke is a threat primarily to coke addicts. We didn't, for example, invade Afghanistan because of the poppy fields.