3 ms·

Moving to the EU becomes a more appealing option every day.

pixelpoet 1y ago
Greetz from Germany, we have Chat Control now even though we've been trying to reject it for at least 3 years. Autocracy is just everywhere these days, Noah get the boat.
- fsflover 1y ago
  This is false, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46063166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46063166
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  The Chat Control problem isn't nearly as final as some news sources try to brand it. They were running up against deadlines and submitted their work knowing statistically their proposal would get shot down based on existing voting rounds. I, too, would rather see this bullshit die in committee before reaching the next stage, but this bullshit can still be stopped.
f1shy 1y ago
No panacea here! Better in some points. In general privacy. OTOH many things are not afvancing.
closewith 1y ago
In the EU, eCall is mandatory and disabling it fails most roadworthiness checks and voids most insurance policies, so it doesn't help much. Also, while the EU does (for now) have stronger privacy protections for citizens against corporate interests, the opposite is true in most EU countries for Government surveillance.
- deno 1y ago
  eCall has very strong privacy protections, see Article 6: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/758/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/758/oj
  - closewith 1y ago
    While eCall has some weak privacy protections (it's open to all the standard cellular network surveillance lawful in each country), it also means you cannot disable the vehicle's modem in most (maybe all) EU countries with failing roadworthiness checks and insurance policies.
    - jeroenhd 1y ago
      eCall mustn't be active until an accident occurs. The lawful interception lobby tried hard to turn every car into a free data point they could sell to the government, but their efforts have failed. Last I heard they've shifted their efforts to making remote activation of on-board cameras part of the 5/6G smart car bullshit (which will of course be part of road safety requirments not long after).
      - closewith 1y ago
        No, that's not correct. The eCall spec requires self-checks that include registering with the network on at least every ignition. However, more importantly, it means you can't lawfully disable the modem that the manufacturer uses for its own telemetry.
        Lio 1y ago
        Are you sure about that? My understanding was that the eCall self test does not connect to a network. That’s stated on the eCall page linked above. Do you have a source that contradicts that?
        closewith 1y ago
        Yes, I am sure. Annex VII only rules out connecting to the PSAP/112 side, not routine network attaches. To detect faults in the “means of communication”, the IVS has to verify that the SIM, baseband and RF path are actually usable, and you can’t test that without a network attach. In practice that’s what all current eCall implementations do. The modem attaches to the cellular network at each ignition so it can confirm it’s capable of placing an eCall. If you block the modem or antenna, the IVS fails its self-test and the vehicle is no longer roadworthy.
CamperBob2 1y ago
This crap is being done because of EU rules. It's "for your protection." The vehicles are being secured from you. https://www.coro.net/blog/what-new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-mean-for-carmakers https://www.coro.net/blog/what-new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-me... https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-push-carmakers-to-shun-old-models/a-68806605 https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-push-carmak...

Greetz from Germany, we have Chat Control now even though we've been trying to reject it for at least 3 years. Autocracy is just everywhere these days, Noah get the boat.

fsflover 1y ago
This is false, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46063166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46063166
jeroenhd 1y ago
The Chat Control problem isn't nearly as final as some news sources try to brand it. They were running up against deadlines and submitted their work knowing statistically their proposal would get shot down based on existing voting rounds. I, too, would rather see this bullshit die in committee before reaching the next stage, but this bullshit can still be stopped.

f1shy 1y ago

No panacea here! Better in some points. In general privacy. OTOH many things are not afvancing.

closewith 1y ago

In the EU, eCall is mandatory and disabling it fails most roadworthiness checks and voids most insurance policies, so it doesn't help much. Also, while the EU does (for now) have stronger privacy protections for citizens against corporate interests, the opposite is true in most EU countries for Government surveillance.

deno 1y ago
eCall has very strong privacy protections, see Article 6: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/758/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/758/oj
- closewith 1y ago
  While eCall has some weak privacy protections (it's open to all the standard cellular network surveillance lawful in each country), it also means you cannot disable the vehicle's modem in most (maybe all) EU countries with failing roadworthiness checks and insurance policies.
  - jeroenhd 1y ago
    eCall mustn't be active until an accident occurs. The lawful interception lobby tried hard to turn every car into a free data point they could sell to the government, but their efforts have failed. Last I heard they've shifted their efforts to making remote activation of on-board cameras part of the 5/6G smart car bullshit (which will of course be part of road safety requirments not long after).
    - closewith 1y ago
      No, that's not correct. The eCall spec requires self-checks that include registering with the network on at least every ignition. However, more importantly, it means you can't lawfully disable the modem that the manufacturer uses for its own telemetry.
      - Lio 1y ago
        Are you sure about that? My understanding was that the eCall self test does not connect to a network. That’s stated on the eCall page linked above. Do you have a source that contradicts that?
        closewith 1y ago
        Yes, I am sure. Annex VII only rules out connecting to the PSAP/112 side, not routine network attaches. To detect faults in the “means of communication”, the IVS has to verify that the SIM, baseband and RF path are actually usable, and you can’t test that without a network attach. In practice that’s what all current eCall implementations do. The modem attaches to the cellular network at each ignition so it can confirm it’s capable of placing an eCall. If you block the modem or antenna, the IVS fails its self-test and the vehicle is no longer roadworthy.

CamperBob2 1y ago

This crap is being done because of EU rules. It's "for your protection." The vehicles are being secured from you. https://www.coro.net/blog/what-new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-mean-for-carmakers https://www.coro.net/blog/what-new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-me... https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-push-carmakers-to-shun-old-models/a-68806605 https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-push-carmak...