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Testing shows automotive glassbreakers can't break modern automotive glass
- silexia 11mo agoUseful tech post!
- 3eb7988a1663 11mo agoNot sure about the "car falls into the lake" scenario, but I know some women who carry these for fear of a crazed Uber driver who might lock them in the car.
- ronsor 11mo agoThe crazy Uber drivers would replace their windows with plexiglass if that caught on.
- chdjdbdbfjf 11mo agoYour threat model is incoherent.
- AngryData 11mo agoYou are assuming a crazed uber driver is smart and knowledgeable enough to do that, but 90% of people driving ubers to start with are doing so because they don't have those kind of skills or knowledge.
- Meekro 11mo agoYou can just unlock the door and exit the car in that case-- there's no way to "lock someone in" unless you've modified the lock somehow. And if someone did that, they probably reinforced the glass too.
- avhon1 11mo agoChild safety locks do this. They prevent the rear doors from being unlocked and opened from the inside.
- Meekro 11mo agoWell, I learned something new today! I always thought that kind of thing would be illegal because it's a fire hazard -- if the driver was unconscious after an accident, the passengers could be trapped in a burning car.
- renewiltord 11mo ago[flagged]
- nine_k 11mo agoI wonder why is this not part of the standard safety tests. It can be done before a crash test, for instance.
- happyopossum 11mo agoWhat exactly are you proposing gets tested? The windows are supposed to be hard to break so people don’t fly out of them…
- _aavaa_ 11mo agoHard enough to not fly out accidentally but weak enough that people can break them on purpose so they're not trapped inside.
- Johnny555 11mo agoI think there's an impossibly thin line between making glass that's easy to break through on purpose, but hard for a high speed head to break through in an accident.
- stavros 11mo agoI'm fairly sure that the two lines are way past each other, on the wrong side. The force with which you'll be flung against the glass is much higher than what you can punch.
- _aavaa_ 11mo agoThis isn’t about punching, it’s about using one of those handheld devices with a pointed metal tip.
- AngryData 11mo agoMost tempered glass does it just fine and has for decades.
- 11mo ago
- thefourthchime 11mo agoThe article glides over the fact that FMVSS 226 is a performance standard, not a materials mandate. Manufacturers can stick with tempered glass if they beef up the side curtain airbags enough to prevent ejection, which is exactly what happens on a lot of base models and rear windows to keep BOM costs down. The list of brands using laminated glass is accurate, but it applies mostly to their premium trims or front rows only. There is also the issue of fleet turnover. With the average age of US vehicles pushing 13 years, the install base is still overwhelmingly tempered glass. Writing off the tool entirely because new luxury cars have moved on ignores the reality of what people are actually driving. You are statistically much more likely to be trapped in a 2012 Civic than a 2025 S-Class.
- bayindirh 11mo ago> The article glides over the fact that FMVSS 226 is a performance standard, not a materials mandate. Nope. The article states the following just after the table: > It's true that not all automakers have switched over to laminated glass for the side windows; the FMVSS 226 law stipulates that you can get around it if you install elaborate side airbags that also prevent ejection.
- alwa 11mo agoAs the grandparent points out, although the article says that, the actual regulation does not. The regulation says you have to prevent side ejections, it doesn’t say how. You can read it yourself: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.226 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.226 > Ejection mitigation countermeasure means a device or devices, except seat belts, integrated into the vehicle that reduce the likelihood of occupant ejection through a side window opening, and that requires no action by the occupant for activation. Lamination and side airbags seem to be the way it’s usually done today, but nothing prevents a better way.
- nrklvklfl 11mo agoHow?
- porphyra 11mo agooh just get Franz von Holzhausen to throw a ball bearing at it
- superkuh 11mo agoThe problem isnot cracking the glass. The problem is breaking it apart enough to get through. Your reference joke is not quite appropriate to this context.
- nine_k 11mo agoHave a crowbar handy. It's known to be useful in a variety of situations, including a literal space alien assault.
- excalibur 11mo agoWe're gonna need a source on that one.
- p1mrx 11mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_(game_engine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_(game_engine)
- windowsrookie 11mo agoBut also don’t leave it loose in your vehicle. A crowbar hitting your head in a car accident does not sound like a good time.
- 3eb7988a1663 11mo agoBetter than a gnome rattling around in the car.
- drob518 11mo agoTrue. But I fail to see the relevance.
- roflchoppa 11mo agoWhats weird is that I know of at least 8 “modern cars” 2018+ that all have had cracked windshields. 3 of them are mine, my 2002 car has taken huge rocks like a champ… Its big glass im telling you, esp because the recalibration stuff for Assistive Steering is like 7-800 bucks.
- daemonologist 11mo ago> the recalibration stuff for Assistive Steering is like 7-800 bucks Yeesh at that point I'd just be buying a Comma.
- rogerrogerr 11mo agoUsually the glass companies force you to pay it. For “safety”. It’s just a “you have a nice car so we’re gonna charge you more” fee. I’ll probably be doing my own windshield on my Tesla to avoid this. Safelight has decent prices but whacks you with a huge fee for pressing “calibrate” in the service menu, which is user accessible.
- roflchoppa 11mo agoHold up you can calibrate it yourself? I was under the impression you need additional hardware jigs to align cameras to fixed points, similar to a steering alignment.
- tforcram 11mo agoSimilar experience with a 2010 Honda Odyssey, drove it for 10 years and never saw a crack even though I'm sure it took a beating. Then we got a 2022 Passport and I swear every single trip has a new crack or chip. I was surprisingly fortunate to be talked into the windshield warranty as the sales guy has been through this exact thing and replacing these windshields with assistive tech is expensive. That warranty has already paid for itself and more including once full windshield replacement.
- cobertos 11mo ago
- sizzzzlerz 11mo agoWhat are the police to do when some insane sovcit refuses to exit the car over a speeding ticket? Those windows aren’t going to break themselves.
- stavros 11mo agoThe fact that you're trying to optimize for "police serving speeding tickets to insane sovcits" over "getting flung out of the car in an accident and being crushed by the car" makes me glad you don't design cars.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- AngryData 11mo agoWhy should they exit a car over a speeding ticket? A speeding ticket is not a jail sentence and does not warrant an arrest. In fact unless a driver is actively trying to harm somebody or has an active arrest warrant there is no reason whatsoever for them to leave their car or allow cops to remove people from cars.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- nerdsniper 11mo agoIn some states, it is the law that officers can order you to step out of the vehicle during any valid traffic stop, regardless if it is criminal or civil. In some states it is the law that if you are from out of state and get a speeding ticket, you either have to pay the officer in cash while you are stopped or they can take you to jail until money is posted or it is your court date. This happened to a friend of mine from Wisconsin, visiting me in Michigan about ten years ago. I was shocked to learn this was actual Mochigan law, and could hardly believe it even after verifying it. He felt very “lucky” to have had several hundred dollars in cash to simply hand over to the officer. Michigan only just rescinded those laws in 2019: https://landline.media/michigan-laws-end-roadside-cash-payments/ https://landline.media/michigan-laws-end-roadside-cash-payme...
- monster_truck 11mo agoNone of these glass breakers are any good at what they're supposed to do anyways, I'd wager all of their websites delinate that they are for tempered glass only. What you want is porcelain or ceramic. Unfortunately, afaik, porclean/cermaic glass breakers are illegal in most states. They are "Burglary Tools". Nothing wrong with keeping a box of spark plugs in your center console though
- mikkupikku 11mo agoThat old spark plug thing was from when cars had tempered side windows, wasn't it? I don't see how those would be particularly effective at dealing with lamination.
- rdtsc 11mo agoWould a spark plug work on laminated glass?
- Johnny555 11mo agoA ceramic glass breaker isn't going to be any better than the metal tools on laminated glass, breaking the glass is only half the battle, you've still got to get through the intact glass pane held in place by the plastic laminate. >Nothing wrong with keeping a box of spark plugs in your center console though But then you've got to keep a tool to break the spark plug to give you a sharp ceramic shard to get through the glass.
- drob518 11mo agoExactly. It’s the plastic middle layer that screws you.
- sebazzz 11mo agoDoes a knife help there?
- walletdrainer 11mo ago
- croes 11mo agoSo no fast rescue of children and dogs in cars in the summer heat anymore
- bombcar 11mo agoYou can just carry the Ripper. https://www.aoe.net/product/the-ripper-window-glass-cutter/ https://www.aoe.net/product/the-ripper-window-glass-cutter/
- eurleif 11mo agoExpensive, and pretty bulky to carry around along with an impact driver. There are less expensive, more compact hand-operated tools, e.g.: https://www.lifelinerescuetools.com/products/lifeline-escape-self-rescue-tool https://www.lifelinerescuetools.com/products/lifeline-escape... https://www.ajaxrescuetools.com/prod-20-1-127-28/extrication-tomahawk-laminated-glass-cutting-tool.htm https://www.ajaxrescuetools.com/prod-20-1-127-28/extrication...
- jonah 11mo agoI've used one (in training). Works great, nice clean cuts, but still a little slow. Quicker to just use an axe which, if you're a firefighter, you have handy. (Carefully chop around the perimeter of the windshield or side window. Use gentle blows to minimize dispersion of broken glass within the cabin.)
- inejge 11mo agoOkay now I'm imagining a classical ballet recreation of the "Heeere's Johnny" scene. With firemen.
- drob518 11mo agoSimple. Just make sure you test your glass breaker on your car side window before you drive off the road or bridge into a deep lake.
- mikkupikku 11mo ago> "The fantasy being peddled by the toolmakers is: You will crash, remain conscious, find that your car has burst into flame or is slowly sinking in water, find that you cannot undo your seatbelt, yet are still able to reach for this specialty tool, slice through your seatbelt, then smash the window open and climb free to safety." Uh huh... Now consider this scenario; you lose control and crash into a tree. You are out and your car catches fire. Who gets to the scene first? Firefighters, or probably just whichever randos happened to be right there when it happened? Probably the later. Probably for the best if one of them is able to break your window and pull you out.
- stavros 11mo agoYes, which is why the article reaches that exact conclusion.
- tharwan 11mo agoVictorinox tried to address this with this tool, not sure how successful https://www.victorinox.com/en-DE/Products/Swiss-Army-Knife%E2%84%A2-and-Tools/Outdoor/Rescue-Tool-MW/ https://www.victorinox.com/en-DE/Products/Swiss-Army-Knife%E...
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- rsyring 11mo ago404 from US IP address. Rescue tool? https://www.victorinox.com/en-US/Products/Swiss-Army-Knife%E2%84%A2-and-Tools/Outdoor/Rescue-Tool-MW/p/0.8623.MWN https://www.victorinox.com/en-US/Products/Swiss-Army-Knife%E...
- mikestew 11mo ago404. This one, perhaps? https://www.victorinox.com/en-DE/Products/Swiss-Army-Knife%E2%84%A2-and-Tools/Outdoor/Rescue-Tool-MW/p/0.8623.MWN https://www.victorinox.com/en-DE/Products/Swiss-Army-Knife%E...
- jerlam 11mo agoThere is a video of this tool being used to cut windshield (laminated) glass. It is not remotely practical: https://youtu.be/LEHl6_ye9as?si=68rwouxAHWcurZ5O&t=73 https://youtu.be/LEHl6_ye9as?si=68rwouxAHWcurZ5O&t=73
- sho_hn 11mo agoBecause it's slow to use? The video does show it working fine. For the "someone locked me in the car" use case it seems OK?
- Izkata 11mo agoI think it's fine for the "sinking in a lake" case too? The water pressure prevents the door from opening, and my understanding was you want the car to fill with water fast enough you can take a breath, let the pressure equalize, then open the door. You're likely not going to get out through a broken window while the water is pouring in through it (I guess if you're fast enough to still be above the water line), so by the time that stops it doesn't seem like there'd be much difference between opening the door and maneuvering through the much smaller window. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC68mflUEwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC68mflUEwc
- csours 11mo agoDisclosure: I work for a car company, not on this. If you want to be prepared for automotive incidents: 1. Check your mood and intoxication level before and while driving. Mood is more important than everything besides drugs and alcohol. 2. Left turns (or across traffic as applicable) are dangerous. Take extra care while turning left (or across traffic). 3. Using screens at night is bad for everyone, but especially above the age of 40, both focus and iris (light balance) response take longer. Using a screen changes your focus and blows out your night vision. 4. If your car has pushbutton electronic door openers, PRACTICE opening the door without battery power.
- underlipton 11mo ago>3. Using screens at night is bad for everyone, but especially above the age of 40, both focus and iris (light balance) response take longer. Using a screen changes your focus and blows out your night vision. On that note, if anyone with Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, et al. would like to revisit the way their apps handle ride assignment - specifically, the way platforms generally refuse to assign orders when the car is stationary, but then inundate contractors with notifications that must be responded to immediately when the car is in motion - it'd be much appreciated.
- underlipton 11mo agoI don't know why I'm asking here. I should be writing my legislative reps to get a law passed.
- modzu 11mo agoif you coudlld just remove the screens except for nav/media thatd be great
- conductr 11mo agoI've had 3 different 2013 model cars by different manufacturers, it was a great year for "just the right amount of tech" in a vehicle
- 11mo ago
- jjmarr 11mo agoCan I still remove the headrest and use it to break glass?
- Izkata 11mo agoThis is apparently a mix of myth and misleading information: They can't be used to directly break the glass like these devices were designed to, they were never designed for this purpose as people claim, and even the "lever it between the glass and door" method only works with tempered glass and not the laminated glass that's used in newer cars. Plus not all headrests can be removed anyway.
- zoklet-enjoyer 11mo agoOh cool. I bought the same model as that image for my girlfriend's kid yesterday
- JSR_FDED 11mo ago“It's easy to convince EDC people to buy EDC things. But how do you convince non-EDC folks to buy your product?” Am I the only one who doesn’t know what EDC is?
- esprehn 11mo agoI didn't know either, Google of just "EDC" figured it out though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everyday_carry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everyday_carry
- Suppafly 11mo agoEvery Day Carry. Nerds on reddit pump each other up to carry a bunch of nominally practical stuff around every day like pocket knives and glass breaking tools and seat belt cutters and such.
- JSR_FDED 11mo agoHilarious! Thank you!
- fainpul 11mo agoEDC is when you carry 3 different sized pocket knives, a flashlight, a watch, a weird high tech pen, a card holder, a gun – and everything is color matched and presented nicely in a photograph you post on reddit.
- atarian 11mo agoI bought a fire extinguisher recently but I’ve never used one. I have a faint idea of how it works and what kind of result I’d get based on what I’ve seen on TV. But if a serious fire ever breaks out I don’t even know if I’d even remember to grab and use it.
- 3eb7988a1663 11mo agoIf you are looking to practice, the MythBusters said a fire extinguisher was an excellent way to quickly cool a case of beer. So, you can make it a $30 party trick and a teaching moment.
- avhon1 11mo agoThey were using carbon dioxide fire extinguishers, which are expensive (a couple hundred dollars, see [1] ) and not common in homes. [1] https://fireextinguisherdepot.com/carbon-dioxide-fire-extinguishers/ https://fireextinguisherdepot.com/carbon-dioxide-fire-exting...
- 3eb7988a1663 11mo agoSo, a $200 party trick when you are really committed to the bit.
- Telaneo 11mo agoIf you have an old one that you want to get rid of, it's a good idea to set up a controlled fire and try out your extinguisher on it. That way you can get some experience. Really though, it mostly is just pull pin -> aim low (at the base and source of the fire) -> squeeze until extinguished. Sweep the nozzle from side to side to get proper coverage. They're intended to be used by anyone with no training, so there's not much to go wrong (assuming you haven't bought the wrong type and use it on an oil fire, although most of the ones I see for sale for consumers are the powder kind, which work on anything. The water ones are the worst, and I've never seen one).
- 11mo ago
- maxglute 11mo agoMan there needs to be some sort of amusement park where you try out common emergency safety mechanisms. I've never broke / pulled a fire alarm, I'm sure I can, but let me. ALSO EVERY AIRPORT SHOULD HAVE MOCK EMERGENCY AIRPLANE DOORS FOR PEOPLE TO TRY OUT.
- RedShift1 11mo agoThat is a great idea. Would be fun to play on for the kids too.
- fastasucan 11mo agoLets not teach kids to open plane doors for fun.
- throw_a_grenade 11mo agoNo, this is backwards. Fun is trying new things (I think it's evolutionary mechanism that ensure kids are learning by default), and once the thing has been tried, it's not new anymore, so won't be tried again. Best thing we can actually do is to channel that, as OP proposed. If only we had cheap, multi-use inflatable exit ramps that deflate, fold and stow themselves after use. Which is not a thing, apparently.
- fastasucan 11mo ago>and once the thing has been tried, it's not new anymore, so won't be tried again There must be something in the water here, because kids here do it over and over again, usually ending up they getting hurt/nearly hurt or told to stop.
- whatevaa 11mo agoYeah, no, that's not how it works. Need to do it many times before something is not fun. Just look at computer games.
- patrulek 11mo agoIf you cant break something, steal it.
- ziofill 11mo agoSo the spark plug ceramic trick only works on older cars?
- dcanelhas 11mo agoIn 15 years: Testing shows that automotive shaped charge glassbreakers can't penetrate the armor on most modern automotive glass. Was drone-proofing civilian cars a mistake?
- TomMasz 11mo agoFirefighters and other emergency service personnel can get through laminated glass, but it takes much more time and effort, as well as tools you're not likely to have in your car.
- starwatch 11mo agoFor anyone looking for an in-vehicle EDC to solve this problem I'd recommend a Keetch tool. I used them in the fire service with great success on the laminated glass of a windscreen. I assume it'd work equally well on a laminated side window glass - though I've not tried. Nice thing is that the sharp spike on it would work quite well on tempered glass too (though we had proper glass breakers for that).
- ginkgotree 11mo agoI just keep a tomahawk axe in my car. That works.