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You are a fool if you think the UK is better. I've moved from the EU to the UK and it is worse in every way when it comes to authoritarian measures. I'm not su

You are a fool if you think the UK is better. I've moved from the EU to the UK and it is worse in every way when it comes to authoritarian measures. I'm not sure how you can have already forgotten the fact that we have to upload or face or ID to access websites.

poszlem 11mo ago
I think he meant that as "I live in the UK where this is already bad, yet the EU still ended up worse.".
- green7ea 11mo ago
  This is how I also read it.
cbeach 11mo ago
In the UK we've had an authoritarian Conservative government for 14 years, followed by an even more authoritarian Labour government, which we'll have until 2029. In 2029 it's likely we'll have a more libertarian government: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/#national-parliament-voting-intention https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/... Reform will repeal some of the awful legislation that's been passed over the last few years (e.g. Online Safety Act). They've been loud critics of government overreach. https://www.ft.com/content/886ee83a-02ab-48b6-b557-857a38f30c1d https://www.ft.com/content/886ee83a-02ab-48b6-b557-857a38f30...
- jbstack 11mo ago
  "a more libertarian government" As long as you are white British. If you're anything else you're probably going to be worse off under Farage. It's a shame that if you want to vote for someone with different policies to the two main parties, you have to accept that you are also voting for an outspoken racist.
  - baiac 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - exasperaited 11mo ago
      Net migration in the UK is falling, and fast. It grew under a party that is ideologically closer to Reform than the government currently in power.
      - cbeach 11mo ago
        Net migration is only falling because of record high numbers of British and European people emigrating, against a backdrop of huge (800K+) levels of gross immigration.
        graemep 11mo ago
        Firstly, why do you lump British and European together? Because they are the same "race" in your eyes? Non-EU net migration has fallen sharply too. It proves what was always obvious to anyone who looked at it, that high net immigration was temporary, especially the peak post covid and the special scheme for Ukrainians.
        cbeach 11mo ago
        Levels of EU vs non-EU immigration has been a particular subject of interest for the UK before and after Brexit. And note also that the UK and EU share high-quality education systems, Western Judeo-Christian culture and Western-aligned geopolitics. Recent waves of immigration from countries in the Middle East and North Africa are importing wholly different culture, geopolitics, and crucially, we are importing from countries with measurably lower standard of literacy and numeracy. These are objective facts, and they are not criticisms or judgements on the character of those who are migrating. I would make exactly the same choices as our Pakistani, Somali and Eritrean friends, if I were in their position.
- Ylpertnodi 11mo ago
  > Reform will repeal some of the awful legislation that's been passed over the last few years (e.g. Online Safety Act). They've been loud critics of government overreach. A lot of politicians change when they get in power.
- forgotoldacc 11mo ago
  America also has a party that always runs on the idea of small government and restoring rights to the people. Every time they get power, they do the exact opposite.
  - cbeach 11mo ago
    [flagged]
    - 71bw 11mo ago
      The far-right Reform party[1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_UK
      - cbeach 11mo ago
        I wonder if your statement was ironic, as the article you posted does not describe Reform as far-right? From the article: > In March 2024, the BBC called the party far-right but soon retracted its statement and apologised to Reform UK, writing that describing the party as far-right "fell short of our usual editorial standards".[219] Commenting on the incident, the professor of politics Tim Bale wrote that labelling Reform UK as far-right is unhelpful, and that it "causes too visceral a reaction and at the same time is too broad to be meaningful". Bale noted the importance of distinguishing between the "extreme right" and "populist radical right", and stated that parties described as far right should instead be "more precisely labelled".[220] Reform UK itself rejects the descriptor, and has threatened legal action against media using it.[221] In May 2025, Ross Clark, writing in The Spectator, argued Reform is "now a left-wing party", by attracting disillusioned Labour voters with stances on restoring welfare benefits, nationalising the steel industry with 50% of utilities and increasing government spending (including the NHS).[222]
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
  - anonym29 11mo ago
    >America also has a party that always runs on the idea of small government and restoring rights to the people. Every time they get power, they do the exact opposite. You seem to be confused. The Libertarian Party never gets any power. The closest we get is representatives like Ron Paul, Justin Amash, and Thomas Massie, who run as Republicans (which are NOT the party of small government, despite what you may have been told) while acting much more like Libertarians. Thomas Massie in particular is famous for frequently and routinely standing up against Trump, much to Trump's chagrin.
- exasperaited 11mo ago
  > In 2029 it's likely we'll have a more libertarian government Haha you're so funny. If Reform get from, what is it right now, five -- or four, or six, depending on how the wind blows — MPs to 326 MPs, which is enough to secure the majority they think they are getting, then libertarian is not what that government will be. It will be populist, white and significantly authoritarian, because pure tabloid authoritarian thuggery is the only possible strategy that could cause a swing larger than any in history, against two parties (labour and liberal democrat) who currently hold 472 seats and represent a sort of centrist blob between them. And this is to say nothing of the challenge they will face finding 326 non-crazy, credible candidates for 326 very different parliamentary elections. And to say nothing of the foreign influence scandal that currently engulfs senior Reform figures or the catastrophic issues already affecting Reform councils like Kent. Do you think Reform could succeed without Farage? And do you think Farage's reputation is going to somehow be improved by the Nathan Gill situation? I accept they will be the largest minority. But the parliamentary maths to get to an outright majority is really extreme; the system does not support such things easily. Maybe they will get to largest minority and then campaign for PR/AV/STV, and maybe finally people will understand something like it is needed. But Farage will be a lot older in that election. (It surprises me to see people who are so keen to believe that a council election wave is necessarily predictive of a national election wave because, what, somehow everything is different now? Why is it different?)
  - cbeach 11mo ago
    > libertarian is not what that government will be How can you be so sure? Why do you assume that everything that the Reform chairman, Zia Yusuf (head of policy) is lies? What, from his history, suggests that he is a liar? > catastrophic issues already affecting Reform councils like Kent. A small number of councillors left, but KCC is still a strong Reform majority. Councillors come and go throughout the year (just look at the constant stream of council by-elections), so to call Kent a "catastrophe" is hyperbole. > It will be populist, white and significantly authoritarian Populist yes. But I've never understood why popular polices get such a bad rep in a supposed democracy? White? So what? Although it's rapidly changing thanks to Tory/Labour policies, the UK remains a majority white country. Why is politicians' skin colour an issue in your mind? "Significantly authoritarian" how? Can you name an "authoritarian" policy in Reform's last manifesto? > Do you think Reform could succeed without Farage? Yes. Zia Yusuf is an extraordinary man, and my money would be on him becoming the leader when Farage inevitably steps down. And your concerns about white politicians will hopefully be soothed when a second-generation Sri Lankan is our Reform prime minister. https://www.youtube.com/@ZiaYusufOfficial https://www.youtube.com/@ZiaYusufOfficial > the parliamentary maths to get to an outright majority is really extreme; the system does not support such things easily. For that to happen, you need a strong i.e. 30%+ share, and you need numerous opposing parties with similar policies, and all polling at similar levels. That's EXACTLY what's happening, and the electoral calculus puts Reform on a strong majority (low = 325, high = 426) https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/#national-parliament-voting-intention https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/... https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
- jacquesm 11mo ago
  It is a massive assumption that reform will win the elections.
  - hn_throw2025 11mo ago
    I think it’s plausible that the UK electorate are sick of switching between Tories and Labour for the last hundred years, especially as they have become indistinguishable in many respects. They were held back because there wasn’t a plausible alternative that had a hope of being elected. Reform has been leading the polls for nearly all this year, so let’s check in a year to see where they stand. But Labour (especially) and the Tories are not going to see an upswing any time soon. The problems in the country (mostly economic due to policy) continue, and their supporters are doomed to the madness of doing the same thing but expecting different results.
    - mapt 11mo ago
      While I'm sure you know much more than I do about UK politics, it seems like some systemic factor pushes both Tories and Labour and whoever else comes close to power, well to the right of their respective voters. In the US, that factor would be campaign contributions and an extremely well-funded conservative propaganda/patronage machine on a war footing. In the UK, is it all about media ownership or something?
      - exasperaited 11mo ago
        > In the UK, is it all about media ownership or something? Yes.
      - cbeach 11mo ago
        The media plays a big role in election outcomes. The Murdoch empire used to have an oversized influence, but since Murdoch exited Sky UK, that's been on the wane. The Sun (which helped Labour's Tony Blair win his landslide) is still a Murdoch enterprise, but it hasn't really moved with the times, and newer media-savvy outlets are starting to get mindshare. GBNews launched in 2021 with a strong anti-establishment mandate. The growth in its audience surprised everyone, surpassing both BBC News and Sky in viewership. For four consecutive months (July-October 2025) GBNews has been Britain's number one news channel (Source: BARB). Crucially it also has 2.5bn views on YouTube since launch. The establishment try to write off and condescend GBNews, but in doing so they condescend the large and growing section of the UK public that GBNews represents (e.g. for example - people on both the Left and Right who are frustrated with 110,000 undocumented migrants entering the UK over the last three years, many of whom have been put up in hotels at taxpayer expense). As the elite condescend and push away large swathes of the population, they are creating increasing loyalty toward GBNews, and by extension, the Reform Party.
- yyyk 11mo ago
  3-4 years is political eternity.
bloqs 11mo ago
I think you misunderstood his post. It's generally un-British to suggest the UK is better in any regard whatsoever. I've no doubt he thinks the UK is just as bad if not worse but in different ways.
hsbauauvhabzb 11mo ago
I’m not sure how you got there unless you were ready for an argument already.
bluescrn 11mo ago
The UK is perhaps less competent at it's authoritarianism
- BoxOfRain 11mo ago
  I genuinely think the public sector being a bit hopeless is a major check on tyranny in the UK. Ofcom (the communications regulator charged with imposing the censorship laws) literally maintains a public list of non-compliant websites that anyone who doesn't want to give their ID to a shady offshore firm can browse for example.
  - echelon_musk 11mo ago
    > can browse for example can't browse?
    - gpderetta 11mo ago
      No, "can" is correct. It is neither illegal nor, currently, technically restricted to browse non-compliant websites. So
    - BoxOfRain 11mo ago
      No they can browse them, Ofcom literally compiled the sites it doesn't want everyone to browse in an easily-accessible list.

poszlem 11mo ago

I think he meant that as "I live in the UK where this is already bad, yet the EU still ended up worse.".

green7ea 11mo ago
This is how I also read it.

cbeach 11mo ago

In the UK we've had an authoritarian Conservative government for 14 years, followed by an even more authoritarian Labour government, which we'll have until 2029. In 2029 it's likely we'll have a more libertarian government: https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/#national-parliament-voting-intention https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/... Reform will repeal some of the awful legislation that's been passed over the last few years (e.g. Online Safety Act). They've been loud critics of government overreach. https://www.ft.com/content/886ee83a-02ab-48b6-b557-857a38f30c1d https://www.ft.com/content/886ee83a-02ab-48b6-b557-857a38f30...

jbstack 11mo ago
"a more libertarian government" As long as you are white British. If you're anything else you're probably going to be worse off under Farage. It's a shame that if you want to vote for someone with different policies to the two main parties, you have to accept that you are also voting for an outspoken racist.
- baiac 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - exasperaited 11mo ago
    Net migration in the UK is falling, and fast. It grew under a party that is ideologically closer to Reform than the government currently in power.
    - cbeach 11mo ago
      Net migration is only falling because of record high numbers of British and European people emigrating, against a backdrop of huge (800K+) levels of gross immigration.
      - graemep 11mo ago
        Firstly, why do you lump British and European together? Because they are the same "race" in your eyes? Non-EU net migration has fallen sharply too. It proves what was always obvious to anyone who looked at it, that high net immigration was temporary, especially the peak post covid and the special scheme for Ukrainians.
        cbeach 11mo ago
        Levels of EU vs non-EU immigration has been a particular subject of interest for the UK before and after Brexit. And note also that the UK and EU share high-quality education systems, Western Judeo-Christian culture and Western-aligned geopolitics. Recent waves of immigration from countries in the Middle East and North Africa are importing wholly different culture, geopolitics, and crucially, we are importing from countries with measurably lower standard of literacy and numeracy. These are objective facts, and they are not criticisms or judgements on the character of those who are migrating. I would make exactly the same choices as our Pakistani, Somali and Eritrean friends, if I were in their position.
Ylpertnodi 11mo ago
> Reform will repeal some of the awful legislation that's been passed over the last few years (e.g. Online Safety Act). They've been loud critics of government overreach. A lot of politicians change when they get in power.
forgotoldacc 11mo ago
America also has a party that always runs on the idea of small government and restoring rights to the people. Every time they get power, they do the exact opposite.
- cbeach 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - 71bw 11mo ago
    The far-right Reform party[1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_UK
    - cbeach 11mo ago
      I wonder if your statement was ironic, as the article you posted does not describe Reform as far-right? From the article: > In March 2024, the BBC called the party far-right but soon retracted its statement and apologised to Reform UK, writing that describing the party as far-right "fell short of our usual editorial standards".[219] Commenting on the incident, the professor of politics Tim Bale wrote that labelling Reform UK as far-right is unhelpful, and that it "causes too visceral a reaction and at the same time is too broad to be meaningful". Bale noted the importance of distinguishing between the "extreme right" and "populist radical right", and stated that parties described as far right should instead be "more precisely labelled".[220] Reform UK itself rejects the descriptor, and has threatened legal action against media using it.[221] In May 2025, Ross Clark, writing in The Spectator, argued Reform is "now a left-wing party", by attracting disillusioned Labour voters with stances on restoring welfare benefits, nationalising the steel industry with 50% of utilities and increasing government spending (including the NHS).[222]
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
- anonym29 11mo ago
  >America also has a party that always runs on the idea of small government and restoring rights to the people. Every time they get power, they do the exact opposite. You seem to be confused. The Libertarian Party never gets any power. The closest we get is representatives like Ron Paul, Justin Amash, and Thomas Massie, who run as Republicans (which are NOT the party of small government, despite what you may have been told) while acting much more like Libertarians. Thomas Massie in particular is famous for frequently and routinely standing up against Trump, much to Trump's chagrin.
exasperaited 11mo ago
> In 2029 it's likely we'll have a more libertarian government Haha you're so funny. If Reform get from, what is it right now, five -- or four, or six, depending on how the wind blows — MPs to 326 MPs, which is enough to secure the majority they think they are getting, then libertarian is not what that government will be. It will be populist, white and significantly authoritarian, because pure tabloid authoritarian thuggery is the only possible strategy that could cause a swing larger than any in history, against two parties (labour and liberal democrat) who currently hold 472 seats and represent a sort of centrist blob between them. And this is to say nothing of the challenge they will face finding 326 non-crazy, credible candidates for 326 very different parliamentary elections. And to say nothing of the foreign influence scandal that currently engulfs senior Reform figures or the catastrophic issues already affecting Reform councils like Kent. Do you think Reform could succeed without Farage? And do you think Farage's reputation is going to somehow be improved by the Nathan Gill situation? I accept they will be the largest minority. But the parliamentary maths to get to an outright majority is really extreme; the system does not support such things easily. Maybe they will get to largest minority and then campaign for PR/AV/STV, and maybe finally people will understand something like it is needed. But Farage will be a lot older in that election. (It surprises me to see people who are so keen to believe that a council election wave is necessarily predictive of a national election wave because, what, somehow everything is different now? Why is it different?)
- cbeach 11mo ago
  > libertarian is not what that government will be How can you be so sure? Why do you assume that everything that the Reform chairman, Zia Yusuf (head of policy) is lies? What, from his history, suggests that he is a liar? > catastrophic issues already affecting Reform councils like Kent. A small number of councillors left, but KCC is still a strong Reform majority. Councillors come and go throughout the year (just look at the constant stream of council by-elections), so to call Kent a "catastrophe" is hyperbole. > It will be populist, white and significantly authoritarian Populist yes. But I've never understood why popular polices get such a bad rep in a supposed democracy? White? So what? Although it's rapidly changing thanks to Tory/Labour policies, the UK remains a majority white country. Why is politicians' skin colour an issue in your mind? "Significantly authoritarian" how? Can you name an "authoritarian" policy in Reform's last manifesto? > Do you think Reform could succeed without Farage? Yes. Zia Yusuf is an extraordinary man, and my money would be on him becoming the leader when Farage inevitably steps down. And your concerns about white politicians will hopefully be soothed when a second-generation Sri Lankan is our Reform prime minister. https://www.youtube.com/@ZiaYusufOfficial https://www.youtube.com/@ZiaYusufOfficial > the parliamentary maths to get to an outright majority is really extreme; the system does not support such things easily. For that to happen, you need a strong i.e. 30%+ share, and you need numerous opposing parties with similar policies, and all polling at similar levels. That's EXACTLY what's happening, and the electoral calculus puts Reform on a strong majority (low = 325, high = 426) https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/#national-parliament-voting-intention https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/... https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
jacquesm 11mo ago
It is a massive assumption that reform will win the elections.
- hn_throw2025 11mo ago
  I think it’s plausible that the UK electorate are sick of switching between Tories and Labour for the last hundred years, especially as they have become indistinguishable in many respects. They were held back because there wasn’t a plausible alternative that had a hope of being elected. Reform has been leading the polls for nearly all this year, so let’s check in a year to see where they stand. But Labour (especially) and the Tories are not going to see an upswing any time soon. The problems in the country (mostly economic due to policy) continue, and their supporters are doomed to the madness of doing the same thing but expecting different results.
  - mapt 11mo ago
    While I'm sure you know much more than I do about UK politics, it seems like some systemic factor pushes both Tories and Labour and whoever else comes close to power, well to the right of their respective voters. In the US, that factor would be campaign contributions and an extremely well-funded conservative propaganda/patronage machine on a war footing. In the UK, is it all about media ownership or something?
    - exasperaited 11mo ago
      > In the UK, is it all about media ownership or something? Yes.
    - cbeach 11mo ago
      The media plays a big role in election outcomes. The Murdoch empire used to have an oversized influence, but since Murdoch exited Sky UK, that's been on the wane. The Sun (which helped Labour's Tony Blair win his landslide) is still a Murdoch enterprise, but it hasn't really moved with the times, and newer media-savvy outlets are starting to get mindshare. GBNews launched in 2021 with a strong anti-establishment mandate. The growth in its audience surprised everyone, surpassing both BBC News and Sky in viewership. For four consecutive months (July-October 2025) GBNews has been Britain's number one news channel (Source: BARB). Crucially it also has 2.5bn views on YouTube since launch. The establishment try to write off and condescend GBNews, but in doing so they condescend the large and growing section of the UK public that GBNews represents (e.g. for example - people on both the Left and Right who are frustrated with 110,000 undocumented migrants entering the UK over the last three years, many of whom have been put up in hotels at taxpayer expense). As the elite condescend and push away large swathes of the population, they are creating increasing loyalty toward GBNews, and by extension, the Reform Party.
yyyk 11mo ago
3-4 years is political eternity.

bloqs 11mo ago

I think you misunderstood his post. It's generally un-British to suggest the UK is better in any regard whatsoever. I've no doubt he thinks the UK is just as bad if not worse but in different ways.

hsbauauvhabzb 11mo ago

I’m not sure how you got there unless you were ready for an argument already.

bluescrn 11mo ago

The UK is perhaps less competent at it's authoritarianism

BoxOfRain 11mo ago
I genuinely think the public sector being a bit hopeless is a major check on tyranny in the UK. Ofcom (the communications regulator charged with imposing the censorship laws) literally maintains a public list of non-compliant websites that anyone who doesn't want to give their ID to a shady offshore firm can browse for example.
- echelon_musk 11mo ago
  > can browse for example can't browse?
  - gpderetta 11mo ago
    No, "can" is correct. It is neither illegal nor, currently, technically restricted to browse non-compliant websites. So
  - BoxOfRain 11mo ago
    No they can browse them, Ofcom literally compiled the sites it doesn't want everyone to browse in an easily-accessible list.