5 ms·

In a lot of ways, I'm thankful that LLMs are letting us hear the thoughts of people who usually wouldn't share them. There are skilled writers. Very skilled, u

In a lot of ways, I'm thankful that LLMs are letting us hear the thoughts of people who usually wouldn't share them. There are skilled writers. Very skilled, unique writers. And I'm both exceedingly impressed by them as well as keenly aware that they are a rare breed. But there's so many people with interesting ideas locked in their heads that aren't skilled writers. I have a deep suspicion that many great ideas have gone unshared because the thinker couldn't quite figure out how to express it. In that way, perhaps we now have a monotexture of writing, but also perhaps more interesting ideas being shared. Of course, I love a good, unique voice. It's a pleasure to parse patio11's straussian technocratic musings. Or pg's as-simple-as-possible form. And I hope we don't lose those. But somehow I suspect we may see more of them as creative thinkers find new ways to express themselves. I hope!

LaGrange 10mo ago
I hate when people hijack progressive language - like in your case the language of accessibility - for cheap marketing and hype. Writing is one of the most accessible forms of expression. We were living in a world where even publishing was as easy as imaginable - sure, not actually selling/profiting, but here’s a secret, even most bestselling authors have either at least one other job, or intense support from their close social circle. What you do to write good is you start by writing bad. And you do it for ages. LLMs not only don’t help here, they ruin it. And they don’t help people write because they’re still not writing. It just derails people who might, otherwise, maybe start actually writing. Framing your expensive toy that ruins everything as an accessibility device is absurd.
- the_snooze 10mo ago
  It basically boils down to "I want the external validation of being seen as a good writer, without any of the internal growth and struggle needed to get there."
  - LaGrange 10mo ago
    I mean, kinda, but also: not only are someone’s meandering ramblings a part of a process that leads to less meandering ramblings, they’re also infinitely more interesting than LLM slop.
  - BoredomIsFun 10mo ago
    > "struggle needed to get there." "Struggle" argument is from gatekeepers and for masochists. Thank you very much.
    - ashton314 10mo ago
      Life is pain! Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. —The Dread Pirate Roberts Everyone who’s produced something good, beautiful, or valuable has had to struggle. That’s just the way work works.
      - BoredomIsFun 10mo ago
        > The Dread Pirate Roberts Okay, who is the next one to cite? Marquis de Carabas? > Everyone who’s produced something good, beautiful, or valuable has had to struggle. That’s just the way work works. It is simply not true.
- cinntaile 10mo ago
  It's probably true that it reduces the barrier to entry, you don't refute that point in your post. You just call it cheap marketing and hype.
  - SoftTalker 10mo ago
    Barriers to entry can be a good thing. It’s a filter for low effort content.
  - LaGrange 10mo ago
    It doesn’t. You’re not entering anything with an LLM.
    - cinntaile 10mo ago
      Of course you are. As the original poster mentioned, it allows lousy writers to get their ideas out in the world. Shitty writing is much more likely to be ignored than LLM writing.
- CityOfThrowaway 10mo ago
  I'm anon, but also the farthest thing from a progressive, so I find this post amusing. I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying but I also have a different frame. Even if we take your claim that LLMs don't make people better writers as true (which I think there's plenty to argue with), that's not the point at all. What I'm saying is people are communicating better. For most ideas, writing is just a transport vessel for ideas. And people now have tools to communicate better than they would have been. Most people aren't trying to become good writers. That's true before, and true now. On the other hand, this argument probably isn't worth having. If your frame is that LLMs are expensive toys that ruin everything -- well, that's quite an aggressive posture to start with and is both unlikely to bear a useful conversation or a particularly delightful future for you.
  - LaGrange 10mo ago
    > I'm anon, but also the farthest thing from a progressive, so I find this post amusing. Oh I know. I called it hijacking because the result is as progressive as a national socialist is a socialist. > What I'm saying is people are communicating better. Actually they’re no longer communicating at all.
  - encyclopedism 10mo ago
    > What I'm saying is people are communicating better. For most ideas, writing is just a transport vessel for ideas. And people now have tools to communicate better than they would have been. You would have to define 'better'.
freejazz 10mo ago
> In that way, perhaps we now have a monotexture of writing, but also perhaps more interesting ideas being shared. They aren't your ideas if its coming out of an LLM
- CityOfThrowaway 10mo ago
  Are they your ideas if they go through a heavy-handed editor? If you've had lots of conversations with others to refine them? I dunno. There's ways to use LLMs that produces writing that is substantially not-your-ideas. But there's also definitely ways to use it to express things that the model would not have otherwise outputted without your unique input.
- BoredomIsFun 10mo ago
  counterargument: they still are your ideas even if they went through LLM.
  - encyclopedism 10mo ago
    Unsubstantiated
    - BoredomIsFun 10mo ago
      wrong
      - ashton314 10mo ago
        Then substantiate them.
the_af 10mo ago
I seriously doubt people didn't write blog posts or articles before LLMs because they didn't know how to write. It's not some magic roadblock. They just didn't want to spend the effort to get better at writing; you get better at writing by writing (like good old Steve says in "On Writing"). It's how we all learnt. I'm also not sure everyone should be writing articles and blog posts just because. More is not better. Maybe if you feel unmotivated about making the effort, just don't do it? Almost everyone will cut novice writers and non-native $LANGUAGE speakers some slack. Making mistakes is not a sin. Finally, my own bias: if you cannot be bothered to write something, I cannot be bothered to read it. This applies to AI slop 100%.
chemotaxis 10mo ago
> In a lot of ways, I'm thankful that LLMs are letting us hear the thoughts of people who usually wouldn't share them. I could agree with you in theory, but do you see the technology used that way? Because I definitely don't. The thought process behind the vast majority of LLM-generated content is "how do I get more clicks with less effort", not "here's a unique, personal perspective of mine, let's use a chatbot to express it more eloquently".
- hyghjiyhu 10mo ago
  We might get twice as many original ideas but hundred times as much filler. Neither of those aspects erases the other. Both the absolute number of ideas and the ratio matter.

LaGrange 10mo ago

I hate when people hijack progressive language - like in your case the language of accessibility - for cheap marketing and hype. Writing is one of the most accessible forms of expression. We were living in a world where even publishing was as easy as imaginable - sure, not actually selling/profiting, but here’s a secret, even most bestselling authors have either at least one other job, or intense support from their close social circle. What you do to write good is you start by writing bad. And you do it for ages. LLMs not only don’t help here, they ruin it. And they don’t help people write because they’re still not writing. It just derails people who might, otherwise, maybe start actually writing. Framing your expensive toy that ruins everything as an accessibility device is absurd.

the_snooze 10mo ago
It basically boils down to "I want the external validation of being seen as a good writer, without any of the internal growth and struggle needed to get there."
- LaGrange 10mo ago
  I mean, kinda, but also: not only are someone’s meandering ramblings a part of a process that leads to less meandering ramblings, they’re also infinitely more interesting than LLM slop.
- BoredomIsFun 10mo ago
  > "struggle needed to get there." "Struggle" argument is from gatekeepers and for masochists. Thank you very much.
  - ashton314 10mo ago
    Life is pain! Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. —The Dread Pirate Roberts Everyone who’s produced something good, beautiful, or valuable has had to struggle. That’s just the way work works.
    - BoredomIsFun 10mo ago
      > The Dread Pirate Roberts Okay, who is the next one to cite? Marquis de Carabas? > Everyone who’s produced something good, beautiful, or valuable has had to struggle. That’s just the way work works. It is simply not true.
cinntaile 10mo ago
It's probably true that it reduces the barrier to entry, you don't refute that point in your post. You just call it cheap marketing and hype.
- SoftTalker 10mo ago
  Barriers to entry can be a good thing. It’s a filter for low effort content.
- LaGrange 10mo ago
  It doesn’t. You’re not entering anything with an LLM.
  - cinntaile 10mo ago
    Of course you are. As the original poster mentioned, it allows lousy writers to get their ideas out in the world. Shitty writing is much more likely to be ignored than LLM writing.
CityOfThrowaway 10mo ago
I'm anon, but also the farthest thing from a progressive, so I find this post amusing. I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying but I also have a different frame. Even if we take your claim that LLMs don't make people better writers as true (which I think there's plenty to argue with), that's not the point at all. What I'm saying is people are communicating better. For most ideas, writing is just a transport vessel for ideas. And people now have tools to communicate better than they would have been. Most people aren't trying to become good writers. That's true before, and true now. On the other hand, this argument probably isn't worth having. If your frame is that LLMs are expensive toys that ruin everything -- well, that's quite an aggressive posture to start with and is both unlikely to bear a useful conversation or a particularly delightful future for you.
- LaGrange 10mo ago
  > I'm anon, but also the farthest thing from a progressive, so I find this post amusing. Oh I know. I called it hijacking because the result is as progressive as a national socialist is a socialist. > What I'm saying is people are communicating better. Actually they’re no longer communicating at all.
- encyclopedism 10mo ago
  > What I'm saying is people are communicating better. For most ideas, writing is just a transport vessel for ideas. And people now have tools to communicate better than they would have been. You would have to define 'better'.

freejazz 10mo ago

> In that way, perhaps we now have a monotexture of writing, but also perhaps more interesting ideas being shared. They aren't your ideas if its coming out of an LLM

CityOfThrowaway 10mo ago
Are they your ideas if they go through a heavy-handed editor? If you've had lots of conversations with others to refine them? I dunno. There's ways to use LLMs that produces writing that is substantially not-your-ideas. But there's also definitely ways to use it to express things that the model would not have otherwise outputted without your unique input.
BoredomIsFun 10mo ago
counterargument: they still are your ideas even if they went through LLM.
- encyclopedism 10mo ago
  Unsubstantiated
  - BoredomIsFun 10mo ago
    wrong
    - ashton314 10mo ago
      Then substantiate them.

the_af 10mo ago

I seriously doubt people didn't write blog posts or articles before LLMs because they didn't know how to write. It's not some magic roadblock. They just didn't want to spend the effort to get better at writing; you get better at writing by writing (like good old Steve says in "On Writing"). It's how we all learnt. I'm also not sure everyone should be writing articles and blog posts just because. More is not better. Maybe if you feel unmotivated about making the effort, just don't do it? Almost everyone will cut novice writers and non-native $LANGUAGE speakers some slack. Making mistakes is not a sin. Finally, my own bias: if you cannot be bothered to write something, I cannot be bothered to read it. This applies to AI slop 100%.

chemotaxis 10mo ago

> In a lot of ways, I'm thankful that LLMs are letting us hear the thoughts of people who usually wouldn't share them. I could agree with you in theory, but do you see the technology used that way? Because I definitely don't. The thought process behind the vast majority of LLM-generated content is "how do I get more clicks with less effort", not "here's a unique, personal perspective of mine, let's use a chatbot to express it more eloquently".

hyghjiyhu 10mo ago
We might get twice as many original ideas but hundred times as much filler. Neither of those aspects erases the other. Both the absolute number of ideas and the ratio matter.