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They've abandoned GitHub for Codeberg because GitHub has ICE as a customer. Codeberg uses Paypal which is a member of the ICE "Virtual Global Taskforce". https
by mmaunder 11mo ago
They've abandoned GitHub for Codeberg because GitHub has ICE as a customer. Codeberg uses Paypal which is a member of the ICE "Virtual Global Taskforce".
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/top-story-industry-partners-play-crucial-role-investigations https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/top-story-industry-partner...
There is a purity spiral that organizations can enter when they start doing this, which ends up with you shoving yourself into a cold dark corner of the internet and still not being completely detached from the badness because Cisco provides infrastructure for nearly every major weapons manufacturer and defense department globally.
- __loam 11mo agoIt seems like every organization in America is compromised in some way if you dig deep enough. Certainly you can find reasons for every big tech. There's still a balance to be struck though.
- kruffalon 11mo agoIf by dig you mean lazily sweep the front door while listening to dance music, then yes, I agree with you :)
- __loam 11mo agoLmao absolutely right
- CoastalCoder 11mo ago> It seems like every organization in America is compromised in some way if you dig deep enough. I agree, and my view is that it goes much further. Quoting author Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: "The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either—but right through every human heart—and through all human hearts.".
- sandmank 11mo agowhen the shit finally starts flying there is no better place to be than low down, in a dark corner, with clean hands, looking nothing like a pig
- sapphicsnail 11mo agoYou're mad because they left a vendor because they switched to a different vendor that you think is just as bad but also you're accusing them of starting an "inevitable purity spiral?" Which one is it?
- wilg 11mo agoIt's not in conflict. They are pointing out that in this case their stated goal was not achieved so it's pointless.
- brendoelfrendo 11mo agoIt wasn't their stated goal, if you read linked article. The commenter got it wrong.
- wilg 11mo agoEnlighten me, they specifically mention ICE as a reason they wanted to switch from GitHub?
- otikik 11mo agoIt didn't seem to me that the person you answered to was "mad". Are you "mad" because of what they wrote?
- picafrost 11mo agoThat's a weird take-away from the post, where the only time ICE is mentioned is > Putting aside GitHub’s relationship with ICE, and the rest of the article provides technical reasons.
- aadishv 11mo agoI feel like that's the whole point of the OP. I agree with the overall post but mentioning the ICE relationship seems to detract from the main point. "I hate GitHub because X Y and Z features are bad" is a good reason to move away; "I hate GitHub because one of their thousands of enterprise customers does not align with my political views" is not, in my opinion. For the record, I do not support ICE
- BiteCode_dev 11mo agoLevels of indirections matter.
- BiteCode_dev 11mo agoLevels of indirection matter.
- pyrale 11mo ago> There is a purity spiral that organizations can enter when they start doing this You are the one summoning that spiral by making a cheap gotcha wrt codeberg using Paypal. The project apparently could and did move because the swith from github to codeberg wasn't that big of an impact, and because, while the new forge is not perfect, they feel the association is less severe. There is no "purity spiral" in that, just a pragmatic choice factoring in ethics.
- simianwords 11mo agoAs I was reading your reply I was half convinced that it was not purity spiral but by the end, even you admit it’s an ethics thing so yeah it is pretty much purity spiral in place. Next they will leave the USA so that they won’t be associated with Trump.
- latexr 11mo agoPracticality matters. For example, even if you choose not to harm other living things, you cannot avoid stepping on and killing the occasional insect. Theoretically you might be able to do it, but you’ll stop having a life. But you can still do much in line with your beliefs, such as not killing animals for food. If GitHub were the sole game in town, maybe (probably) they wouldn’t have switched. But it isn’t, and they found something which in their view is an acceptable replacement and less worse. So yeah, maybe they don’t ethically agree with everyone on every thing up the chain, but they apparently agree with them more. That matters. You take a stand where you are able to.
- simianwords 11mo agoYeah but would you stop using AWS because of the same reason?
- f_devd 11mo agoI never started for similar reasons
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- 0x000xca0xfe 11mo agoSounds great because Zig folks do seem to have a history with rejecting existing tooling for fussy reasons and building their own (really good) stuff. If this forces them to rethink and build a better GitHub, can't wait.
- d0throww0 11mo agoI think there's a difference between providing services to X and a platform using a payment processor that collaborates with X. You have a point, of course, but for many options, the best we can do is avoid the worst one as there's no perfect solution. I'm not saying that people should leave GitHub because of this, but I can see why some would and why they may pick a different, still not perfect, alternative instead of doing everything themselves.
- rvcas 11mo agoWe’re all sick of these activist dorks
- tbrockman 11mo agoThere's nothing that compels you to "purity spiral" other than attempting to appease cynics who insist that all decisions must be completely binary and consistent, with no room for nuance or practicality, and that anything else is virtue signaling (which is somehow less defensible than enabling harm in the first place). Reducing harm where feasible is still meaningful, and certainly better than no attempt at all.
- baranul 11mo agoThis is indeed the virtue signaling trap. It then calls into question of if such public figures or organizations are really as ethical, as they claim to be or if the reason given is actually valid. Especially, upon further scrutiny, if that leadership is involved in dirt or makes conflicting statements. The uncovered hypocrisy or deception, greatly undermines public trust and how the foundation is viewed.