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It's okay to bring some "natural" language in technical communication. It feels more humane. All the whitewashed corporate language, riddled marketing bullshit

It's okay to bring some "natural" language in technical communication. It feels more humane. All the whitewashed corporate language, riddled marketing bullshit feels so soul dead.

adrianN 1y ago
You can express dissatisfaction and anger „naturally“ without calling people losers and monkeys.
- MarcelOlsz 1y ago
  I think it's a breath of fresh air. Don't want to be called out like this then stop fucking up.
  - petersellers 1y ago
    I'm sure getting called a monkey will stop them from ever making a mistake again.
    - teo_zero 1y ago
      If this was true, teachers and trainers would have the easiest job in the world: just insulting their pupils would stop them from failing an exam, race or whatever again.
      - ternaryoperator 1y ago
        The comment is clearly sarcasm.
  - patates 1y ago
    I could try to explain that most jobs are way more nuanced than just 'failing and deserving to be called a monkey' or 'not failing.' Or, I could just call you names for not seeing that, you could call me names back, and we can keep doing this forever.
    - Veserv 1y ago
      Your argument is lacking nuance, declaring that the criticism being levied here must be a simple binary. The specific error they are criticizing is extremely egregious, akin to builder declaring a house without a roof complete. “failing and deserving to be called a monkey” is a criticism being levied against a 0/100 level mistake, not a mere minor mistake as you are claiming. While it might be desirable to use less colorful language, it is frankly challenging to express the sheer level of grossly incompetent organizational ineptitude on display here in a reviewed and delivered product actively causing negative customer impact for literal years which is trivially fixed and yet has been ignored. Customers of Github should be infuriated that Github gleefully foists such utterly defective software upon them. It is hard to get that across in dispassionate writing.
      - patates 1y ago
        Thanks for the thoughtful response. > Your argument is lacking nuance, declaring that the criticism being levied here must be a simple binary. That isn't my argument. I am arguing against the idea that there is an "objective" threshold of failure where, once crossed, it becomes acceptable to call people names. > Customers of Github should be infuriated that Github gleefully foists such utterly defective software upon them. It is hard to get that across in dispassionate writing. See, while it has its bugs, I don't see a major problem with GitHub as a software product (setting aside the monopoly concerns). I encourage passionate discussion, but calling people names doesn't communicate passion; it communicates impatience. It suggests you don't have the patience to actually make a case for something you're supposedly passionate about, so you're choosing a shorter, more aggressive form instead.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - oaiey 1y ago
    Not everyone is that robust. People get hurt over things like that. Not everyone is a wizard who does not give a fuck and does not need to care. These are people for God's sake. Empathy!
    - zwnow 1y ago
      If people get hurt over that they need to take some courses on building confidence...
      - brabel 1y ago
        Right, those black people who get offended by being called that just need confidence, right? Those LGBT are so sensitive and can’t handle the colorful names we call them! Imagine that. This kind of comment shows how HN commenters can be so incredibly hateful while thinking they are righteous, which is the worst kind of people, it’s the atitude that leads to the most terrible policies and behavior ever seen on this planet.
        zwnow 1y ago
        Or you grow up and see these kinda things within the right context and brush off whats easy to brush off. Obvious racial slurs or discriminating insults towards a whole community is obviously something different. But you sound like the type of person to cancel a comedian over a joke.
      - peterspath 1y ago
        People indeed need a thicker skin
    - majkinetor 1y ago
      Treating grown up people like little kids is a major problem. If that was a stressor which requires defensive actions such as this one, what are you good for in life?
    - ImHereToVote 1y ago
      Feeling empathy for their pathetic fragile existence doesn't mean you sympathise with said fragility.
  - _2d30 1y ago
    [flagged]
- throwaway150 1y ago
  > You can express dissatisfaction and anger „naturally“ without calling people losers and monkeys. I can't speak for others. But if I am screwing up as badly as GitHub is, I'd rather someone calls me a loser and monkey for it. It's like someone splashing ice cold water on my face and showing me the reality. It's going to be very uncomfortable, yes. But I'll learn from it and try not to screw up so badly again. I find this kind of natural outburst refreshing really.
  - latexr 1y ago
    That’s a theoretically admirable attitude if true (I don’t doubt you believe it, and maybe even do it successfully, but often how we react differs from how we think or say we’d react) but definitely not universal. A more common and probable outcome is people clamming up and becoming defensive, actively rejecting the criticism because of how it was delivered. Though best case scenario, the people working on these features agree and can point their managers to the post as an example of growing discontent. I doubt it’ll have an effect, though. GitHub is now under the AI division at Microsoft.
  - adrianN 1y ago
    Imo there is a big difference between insulting a person's work and insulting a person themself. People can and do mess up colossally without being losers or monkeys.
- m4rtink 1y ago
  Yeah, its rude to actual monkeys - they did nothing wrong!
rwallace 1y ago
Sure. If you feel the need to write "this is shitty code", fair enough, I'm fine with making allowances for that kind of language. But please leave it at that, instead of also insulting the people who wrote it. There are, unfortunately, plenty of ways for bad incentives to result in competent people creating bad products.
TiredOfLife 1y ago
But not when it's against coc
bsder 1y ago
And if he cleaned it up, an even larger number of people would be calling it written with AI. Shrug. If he were berating a specific person, I might flag it. Berating Github and Microsoft as an organization? Nah. Given that CEOs seem to now live in a Post Shame Reality(tm), I'll allow bringing some shame to the situation.
tjpnz 1y ago
As a corporate drone it's refreshing. Already planning to dedicate some of the holiday season to learning Zig and this latest move only makes it more enticing.
johnfn 1y ago
If he had gone on a rant purely about the product - eg “GitHub actions is a garbage product that never works”, I think that wouldn’t have left such a bad taste in my mouth. Calling the developers all “losers” crosses a line.
rldjbpin 1y ago
that's all well and good but not when it is peddled by you simultaneously in other facets: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46065778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46065778

It's okay to bring some "natural" language in technical communication. It feels more humane. All the whitewashed corporate language, riddled marketing bullshit feels so soul dead.

adrianN 1y ago

You can express dissatisfaction and anger „naturally“ without calling people losers and monkeys.

MarcelOlsz 1y ago
I think it's a breath of fresh air. Don't want to be called out like this then stop fucking up.
- petersellers 1y ago
  I'm sure getting called a monkey will stop them from ever making a mistake again.
  - teo_zero 1y ago
    If this was true, teachers and trainers would have the easiest job in the world: just insulting their pupils would stop them from failing an exam, race or whatever again.
    - ternaryoperator 1y ago
      The comment is clearly sarcasm.
- patates 1y ago
  I could try to explain that most jobs are way more nuanced than just 'failing and deserving to be called a monkey' or 'not failing.' Or, I could just call you names for not seeing that, you could call me names back, and we can keep doing this forever.
  - Veserv 1y ago
    Your argument is lacking nuance, declaring that the criticism being levied here must be a simple binary. The specific error they are criticizing is extremely egregious, akin to builder declaring a house without a roof complete. “failing and deserving to be called a monkey” is a criticism being levied against a 0/100 level mistake, not a mere minor mistake as you are claiming. While it might be desirable to use less colorful language, it is frankly challenging to express the sheer level of grossly incompetent organizational ineptitude on display here in a reviewed and delivered product actively causing negative customer impact for literal years which is trivially fixed and yet has been ignored. Customers of Github should be infuriated that Github gleefully foists such utterly defective software upon them. It is hard to get that across in dispassionate writing.
    - patates 1y ago
      Thanks for the thoughtful response. > Your argument is lacking nuance, declaring that the criticism being levied here must be a simple binary. That isn't my argument. I am arguing against the idea that there is an "objective" threshold of failure where, once crossed, it becomes acceptable to call people names. > Customers of Github should be infuriated that Github gleefully foists such utterly defective software upon them. It is hard to get that across in dispassionate writing. See, while it has its bugs, I don't see a major problem with GitHub as a software product (setting aside the monopoly concerns). I encourage passionate discussion, but calling people names doesn't communicate passion; it communicates impatience. It suggests you don't have the patience to actually make a case for something you're supposedly passionate about, so you're choosing a shorter, more aggressive form instead.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- oaiey 1y ago
  Not everyone is that robust. People get hurt over things like that. Not everyone is a wizard who does not give a fuck and does not need to care. These are people for God's sake. Empathy!
  - zwnow 1y ago
    If people get hurt over that they need to take some courses on building confidence...
    - brabel 1y ago
      Right, those black people who get offended by being called that just need confidence, right? Those LGBT are so sensitive and can’t handle the colorful names we call them! Imagine that. This kind of comment shows how HN commenters can be so incredibly hateful while thinking they are righteous, which is the worst kind of people, it’s the atitude that leads to the most terrible policies and behavior ever seen on this planet.
      - zwnow 1y ago
        Or you grow up and see these kinda things within the right context and brush off whats easy to brush off. Obvious racial slurs or discriminating insults towards a whole community is obviously something different. But you sound like the type of person to cancel a comedian over a joke.
    - peterspath 1y ago
      People indeed need a thicker skin
  - majkinetor 1y ago
    Treating grown up people like little kids is a major problem. If that was a stressor which requires defensive actions such as this one, what are you good for in life?
  - ImHereToVote 1y ago
    Feeling empathy for their pathetic fragile existence doesn't mean you sympathise with said fragility.
- _2d30 1y ago
  [flagged]
throwaway150 1y ago
> You can express dissatisfaction and anger „naturally“ without calling people losers and monkeys. I can't speak for others. But if I am screwing up as badly as GitHub is, I'd rather someone calls me a loser and monkey for it. It's like someone splashing ice cold water on my face and showing me the reality. It's going to be very uncomfortable, yes. But I'll learn from it and try not to screw up so badly again. I find this kind of natural outburst refreshing really.
- latexr 1y ago
  That’s a theoretically admirable attitude if true (I don’t doubt you believe it, and maybe even do it successfully, but often how we react differs from how we think or say we’d react) but definitely not universal. A more common and probable outcome is people clamming up and becoming defensive, actively rejecting the criticism because of how it was delivered. Though best case scenario, the people working on these features agree and can point their managers to the post as an example of growing discontent. I doubt it’ll have an effect, though. GitHub is now under the AI division at Microsoft.
- adrianN 1y ago
  Imo there is a big difference between insulting a person's work and insulting a person themself. People can and do mess up colossally without being losers or monkeys.
m4rtink 1y ago
Yeah, its rude to actual monkeys - they did nothing wrong!

rwallace 1y ago

Sure. If you feel the need to write "this is shitty code", fair enough, I'm fine with making allowances for that kind of language. But please leave it at that, instead of also insulting the people who wrote it. There are, unfortunately, plenty of ways for bad incentives to result in competent people creating bad products.

TiredOfLife 1y ago

But not when it's against coc

bsder 1y ago

And if he cleaned it up, an even larger number of people would be calling it written with AI. Shrug. If he were berating a specific person, I might flag it. Berating Github and Microsoft as an organization? Nah. Given that CEOs seem to now live in a Post Shame Reality(tm), I'll allow bringing some shame to the situation.

tjpnz 1y ago

As a corporate drone it's refreshing. Already planning to dedicate some of the holiday season to learning Zig and this latest move only makes it more enticing.

johnfn 1y ago

If he had gone on a rant purely about the product - eg “GitHub actions is a garbage product that never works”, I think that wouldn’t have left such a bad taste in my mouth. Calling the developers all “losers” crosses a line.

rldjbpin 1y ago

that's all well and good but not when it is peddled by you simultaneously in other facets: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46065778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46065778